Arming your enemies

[ISC]

OK, You're probably thinking about Benghazi and Hilary Clinton when you see that headline, but that's not the purpose of this thread. I am discussing the Idea of leveraged trade of arms to a group or family you are at odds with after a collapse.

I can think of a couple reasons to trade a functional gun with a limited ammo supply. A neighbor or friendly visitor who was only armed with a pistol could be be given this disposable long gun, and regardless of that person's survival or future antagonism, that gun/ammo combination would be less likely to be used against you in the future.

Now all of that is pretty far fetched, many might say, but it is a stated strategy by the gun grabbers to make ammo very expensive or otherwise restricted as a way to control their enemy (us). Could this strategy be used by us too?

[paintballmagnet]

Re: Arming your enemies

My thoughts anyone foolish enough to have not purchased firearms and ammo are gonna pay dear to get anything from me. Someone I don't like its gonna be even higher. I have some pretty good friends that in good times all is well, would I trust them after the balloon goes up? Good question, especially since no one was ever caught that totally emptied my house. But anyone caught away from home, yeah I'd toss them a rifle and some ammo, in fact once had three or four SKS with 500 rounds each for just this purpose.

[ISC]

Re: Arming your enemies

I was thinking about what use could one make from a 100 year rifle with ammo that was hard to find? A couuple common collectible guns come to mind:

Carcano (6.5x51, 7.35x51)
Vz52 (7.62x45)
Enfield (.303)
Arisaka (6.5x50, 7.7x58)
M95 Steyr (7.92x56r)
MAS 36, (M49/56 (7.5 french)
Lebel, Berthier (8x50r)

There are others, like old west caliber lever actions, guns in 7x57 or 7.5 Argentine, but I don't own them or they are such oddballs that it's all but impossible to acquire 100 rounds of ammo for them unless you make it yourself.

[RT]

Re: Arming your enemies

My thoughts anyone foolish enough to have not purchased firearms and ammo are gonna pay dear to get anything from me. Someone I don't like its gonna be even higher. I have some pretty good friends that in good times all is well, would I trust them after the balloon goes up? Good question, especially since no one was ever caught that totally emptied my house. But anyone caught away from home, yeah I'd toss them a rifle and some ammo, in fact once had three or four SKS with 500 rounds each for just this purpose.

All true to some degree, but there are reasons and ways people lose stuff, like that situation when friends/family looted your place when you had that heart attack and nobody owned up to it.

People could lose stuff to government action, betrayal, ripoffs, had to ditch or cache things before going through a checkpoint. A lot of ways a "prepper" can get screwed into bunny rabbit mode in a SHTF situation.

[TC6969]

Re: Arming your enemies

The one I get a kick out of is an acquaintance who dropped from the "buddy" category when he outed himself as an "Its all about me!" Mo-Fo.

Any time I get around him, and the subject comes up, he says

"When the **** hits the fan, I"M going to TC's house!"

Now, I have spent 10s of 1000s of dollars on equipment to keep me alive and healthy when society collapses.

He in turn, has spent 10s of 1000s of dollars on beer, pot and cigarettes.

Does he think he is going to knock on the door and be welcomed with open arms?

"JOE! Cmon in! Have an AR15! Need a big knife to go with it?"

I'm going to ask him next time the subject comes up and see what he says!

[erich]

Re: Arming your enemies

I would never arm or supply someone I do not know unless they are joining.
History is full of dead people that trusted a stranger in bad times.

[arkyboy]

Re: Arming your enemies

I have had several people say to me that if things went south they were coming to my house, since most know that I am well armed. My usual response is that if things go south, anything wandering into my yard will get shot. Usually stops all that BS. No reason in the world that any of them can't buy a gun and some ammo ahead of time...get your priorities straight.
arkyboy

[erich]

Re: Arming your enemies

I have had several people say to me that if things went south they were coming to my house, since most know that I am well armed. My usual response is that if things go south, anything wandering into my yard will get shot. Usually stops all that BS. No reason in the world that any of them can't buy a gun and some ammo ahead of time...get your priorities straight.
arkyboy

I agree

[BOOKWORM]

Re: Arming your enemies

I have had several people say to me that if things went south they were coming to my house, since most know that I am well armed. My usual response is that if things go south, anything wandering into my yard will get shot. Usually stops all that BS. No reason in the world that any of them can't buy a gun and some ammo ahead of time...get your priorities straight.
arkyboy

SECURITY of INFORMATION is like Virginity, once it is gone, it's GONE.
As times start getting weirder, Sheeple will still not prepare, but they will REMEMBER that you were the guy in the office/plant/club talking about Y2K.

Here is a thread from one of the best Y2K boards, AND IT STILL APPLIES.

++++From an old Y2K Board++++++++++++

"I'll just come to your house..."

Original Poster

I asked my boss if he was preparing for y2k, & he made that standard joke about showing up at my house when TSHTF...

...and I told him: What if I've done a lousey job in preparing? After all, I've never done it before. I have no survival experience. It's quite possible that I'll forget or neglect something important, or mis-calculate, or just mess up generally.

Or, some other un-prepared persons might beat him to my door. Maybe a whole army of vultures will already be picking at my corpse when you arrive. (nice thought)

Why trust your survival to my preparations when you can make your own? Why put your life in my hands? I barely trust myself to do this correctly, why on earth should you?

Well. Maybe he'll start preparing now.

-- better (not@risk.it), June 18, 1999

Answers
I hear that answer a lot, but I think it is more of an attempt at humor to end the conversation than a real statement of intention. The people who say that also have the mental picture of y2k wackos with guns to defend themselves.

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I no longer discuss the situation with anyone who is not already preparing. (Wouldn't want to disturb my "doomer meme", after all ).
The last time someone said this to me I gave them a deadly serious look and said, "Not without 6 months of your own supplies". THAT got a shocked look.

No offence meant here, folks, but there was an old "outlaw biker" saying that fits: "A$$, gas, or grass. No one rides for free".

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The DGI (Don't Get It, anyone who doesn't prepare) may think he is being humorous, but it is really a very hostile statement and deserves and equally hostile reply to wake them up, along the lines of..."Since your family means so little to you, why in the world do you think I would ever consider jeopardizing the welfare of my family to bail you out?"

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I agree with Jon... I don't talk about Y2K with anyone anymore. I used to try--and then watch the look of disbelief and contempt come to the face of the person I was trying to convince. I know it sounds heartless, but no way am I sharing my stash with anyone except family and close neighbors. All they'll get from me is the same look I got.

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"Since your family means so little to you, why in the world do you think I would ever consider jeopardizing the welfare of my family to --- "
Bang. Bang. Bang. End of conversation.

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If "I'll come over to your house" is ever uttered to me, I say, "Kewl..we could always use workers to help us out...gotta earn your keep, y'know."

Add to the list of zingers:
Since I like you so much, I'll give you an easy job. We'll put you at the edge of the perimeter so you can be the lookout person, in case any roaming gangs come around. If you run back to the house fast enough, you can draw their fire, and we'll protect you. Sorry, we don't have enough guns to go around, but that's okay. We're pretty good shots, so you're more likely to be picked off accidently by the neighbors, who are in on this with us...hmmm...now that I think of it, I'll have to tell 'em there may be visitors coming...they're sorta trigger happy, but they're nice people.
Sure, you can come to my house...er, no. Let me take that back. You can sleep in the barn, next to the rabbits. Then, when you wake up, you can dump the manure into the compost pile, then come up for breakfast. We can talk about the chores for the day while we're at it
You look pretty hardy...looks like you have a strong back. How good are you at swinging an axe? By the way, how much can you lift? Come to think of it, I need someone to carry buckets of water from the stream up to the house. Hmmmm....perhaps that's something we could give to your wife or your kids to do...
You aren't scared of masangua rattlesnakes, are you? I swear, we've seen more of them. Be sure to wear some heavy boots if you're comin' down. Hunting for them is a blast, and they're delicious...tastes just like chicken. I'll teach ya how to skin 'em, along with the rabbits.
Oh yeah, now that I'm thinking about it, I could use someone to help me clean and gut the fish, tend the garden.
And lemme tell ya, at the end of the day, you'll be glad to get some sleep. Uh, wait a minute...that is, unless you're scheduled for guard duty. We may have to rotate the schedule somewhat.
And, to end the conversation, be accommodating and say, "I'm only going to let a few folks in on this, so please keep this under your hat, okay? "

Of course, if you don't live in the country, you'll have to change your responses somewhat. As for me, once someone listens to that and is still interested, willing to earn their keep, then, they're welcome, if they have enough gas to get there and manage to find the place.

One caveat to this approach is that people will think that you're INSANE and avoid talking to you, which is fine by me. I don't want to have anything to do with people who say "I'll just come over to your house" anyways. I don't talk about anything regarding Y2k unless provoked/asked, so I haven't had the opportunity to use this approach much.

As for the people who intend to mooch/plunder/take without pulling their load/contributing/bartering in return, I don't know how they can sleep at night. You will eventually be accountable for your actions.

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My standard response to the line "We'll just come to your house," is "Sorry, my guest list is already full, but I will be more than happy to help you get started on your preparations. When can we get together?"
If the other party laughs off getting together to work on preps, I say "Seriously, we WON'T have supplies for the uninvited. Asking us to give up what we have set aside for ourselves would be asking us to join you in a suicide pact, and we're preparing in order to avoid exactly that outcome. Call me if you need some help getting started. But don't wait much longer or it will be too late."

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Too late for me, the secret's out and now it's a big joke around the office. That's what comes of ordering supplies while you're at work. With any luck it will always be a joke. If not, well, my preps are moving in a more aggressive direction to compensate...overall it might be good. I was getting a bit complacent about location and defenses.

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Look, anyone who thinks that they and their stash will remain secret if TSHTF is fooling themselves. Rumors spread like wildfire during disasters and the first person who even *suspects* that you are prepared will be at your door in a heartbeat. All it takes is a whiff of food-cooking to send some very hungry people your way...
I've taken the approach of hiding my actions from no one. I let them know we'll do what we can to help, but not to count on us for their continued existence. I also let them know that every adult staying in my house will be armed and we will do what we must to protect ourselves and our families. That usually gets them thinking of alternatives to "I'll just come to your house..."

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Yeah, Tech, you're probably right. I've been in the "fooling myself" category for a while, but it's looking untenable already.

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My standard answer to 'well, we will just come to your house for ....' is a firm and direct, "NO YOU WILL NOT. We will not be accepting visitors." This generally results in a shocked look, followed by nervous laughter. I then explain I am giving them all the help I have to give, by warning them and offering to help them get started. (and it doesnt hurt to mention our fire power and target shooting, either!)

+++++++From an old Y2K Board+++++++