How to defeat an APC

[Hipshot]

I am surprised that only one person so far has mentioned Molotov Cocktails. They are a tried and true anti-tank device. They worked against the russian T-33 tanks when the Hungarians made their bid for freedom back in the, I think late 50s. Maybe 60s.
They are very simple to make. All you do is mix some soap powder with gasoline in a double boiler (obvious danger here), or melt styrofoam in gasoline till it is stickey. Fill a bottle with the fuel and cap it. Last, a rag around the neck of the bottle.
When you are ready to use the cocktail, you need covering fire from some real riflemen who can hit the firing ports, to keep the crew buttoned up in their creamatorium. Soak the rag in fuel and lite it and throw it. When it breaks against the target quickly follow it up with more bottles.
A variation of this as used in Korea was to dig holes at an angle into the hillsides around our outposts and placing a 1/4 pound block of TNT in the bottom. The TNT was wired to field phones in our bunkers. A 5 gallon can of Napalm was placed in the hole on top of the TNT. When the Chinese attacked, we cranked the phone and fried their rice for them. This might work a on light armor too.
There was also a mention made of a platter charge, they are not too hard to make and are very effective.
For basic improvised munitions though you can't get much more basic than a tub of black powder and rocks buried under the road or beside it and angled toward the road. How basic is it? Well, black powder can be made from nitrates from the soil of an old horse barn, an old out-house or a cemetary, mixed with sulfer and charcoal (willow is best).
Lots of good things you can do and I want a copy of the book.

[TP]

You guys should examine exactly what the Iraqi and Afghan badguys are doing. There is now a TON of experience in our military with dealing with this, all the way down to the exact wiring and components and such the badguys are using.

The advantage of this approach is our guys also know what countermeasures are being applied. Probably not good details for a book, and certainly not for here, but if you get a chance to chat with somebody pick their brain. I have learned more in months here than all the years of training back home, just because the badguys here have done things we didn't think of, many of which work very well.

[WolfWarrior]

My thought too was the use of molotov cocktails/petrol bombs to defeat an APC. Did'nt the russians use them effectively against invading german tanks?

[Whitey]

Thing to remember about molotov cocktails is that they may have been used sucessesfully to defeat armor in WWII but that was 60 years ago. Things have probably changed a bit since then.

However perhaps a giant molotov might work. Like a fuel truck ignited by a command detonated charge or some other means. I think you would need a lot more fuel to defeat a modern tank.

[Cuznguido]

If this stuff ever comes to reality, there will be lots and lots of stolen stuff out there, both carried and mobile. (Just my .02.) The story might want to consider that the first thing that would happen in this country would be massive thefts at armories etc.

[tdperk]

Guido, yo man dangitaintnotheftnoburglarAmericansdangit. Themsuppliesidbeliberatedman.

Channeling Boomhauer (from King of the Hill),

Yours, TDP

[navigator]

Home made morters Get some all nitrogen fertilizer, grind it up in a coffee grinder or or blender. Heat to 150 degrees, mix with nitro methane racing fuel. Do not heat over 150. Pack in a two inch diamiter pipe and cap the top with a shot gun shell with the pellets taken out fixed in a pipe in the bottom with a fuse to a blasting cap. drop down a 2.5 heavy walled steel pipe with a nail in the bottom aimed at the APC

[Ol'Sarge2K]

Some interesting and inventive ideas. I really enjoyed BWFS’s offspring’s post. Thanks for the great pictures. Wish we still had recoilless rifles on our 113s.

Couple of observations:

“The fire control system includes a dual magnification day sight and x5.5 night sight. Sorta screwed there.”
Well that certainly doesn’t help. But I have crept up to and past armor equipped with thermals during field exercises. The crew has to sweep the entire turret back and forth. One can usually approach up to the tank at an angle undetected as the turret’s “search arc” is often too narrow to lock in with his neighbor. Moreover the vehicle has to be running to power the thermals (the batteries run down very quickly otherwise) and the crew is consequently never going to hear you coming. (As a side note - on a lot of armor vehicles the AG’s and TC’s machinegun can not depress low enough to hit a soldier close to or against the side of the vehicle. That being said most Eastern block armor is really low and probably can hit man sized targets pressed up against the hull with the cupola machineguns. [Check your local military base for war trophies brought back from Iraq. You can see how low the weapons can depress that way.] Watch out for pivot steer.)

“Thing to remember about molotov cocktails is that they may have been used sucessesfully to defeat armor in WWII but that was 60 years ago. Things have probably changed a bit since then.”
The armor on a WWII medium tank was as thick or considerable thicker than any modern APC. That being said Molotov’s don’t really work by “penetrating” the armor.

“Home made mortars.”
Unfortunately, probably not. I was a mortar crewman for a time. Mortars can suppress armor. Make them button up and lose visibility, maybe clip off an antenna or break a vision block. That’s about it. A direct hit from an 81mm and up will almost kill any armored vehicle (tank and down) but the odds of getting a direct hit with a mortar on a vehicle size target is hideously small. Out at NTC (Mohave desert – home of the Army’s biggest war games) it required a good grid and 80 something 120mm mortar rounds to “kill” a BMP.

[Ol'Sarge2K]

Actually, this may help you get an idea of the scale of a BTR 80…

All pictures taken at Camp McGovern, Bosnia 1998.







That’s me with the cool Mall Ninja head swirl.

[kukri]

Originally posted by Hipshot:
I am surprised that only one person so far has mentioned Molotov Cocktails. They are a tried and true anti-tank device. They worked against the russian T-33 tanks when the Hungarians made their bid for freedom back in the, I think late 50s.

The earlier BTR-70 used gasoline engines and was vulnerable to fires from larger Molotov cocktails- a liter or so each, best used in multiples- but the BTR 80 and later versons have Diesel engines, as well as internal fire suppression systems.

In a channeled location such as a pass, a city street or a bridge or ford, a 55-gallon drum full of gasoline and a motor oil/ Diesel fuel combination would do likely. Command detonation of the rupturing charge- a one pound can of black powder would do nicely- or detonation with a tripwire or pressure sensative switch would be required, but not difficult. If the charge could be fired from behind the vehicle downward, it's also give the gunner of the 14.5-mm KPVT machinegun a real bad day at the office. Dealing with several would be harder, of course, but one or two escorting a convoy of *softer* unarmored vehicles would not be impossible, particularly if they could be caught while refueling.

Remember: for every hour of operation, four hours of maintenance are required. Get them then, not while they're expecting it.

[nitram68]

Cool pix

[Antibabylon]

I TOTALLY agree with the fellas above who are of the opinion that we will probably be up against American/Western equipment ( WACO ) not eastern bloc stuff.

I see blue hats coming...

[Soda]

|-|ttp://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/row/rusav.htm

Soda says: "Chill! When/if that time cometh, NFA Class III won't be much than a bad dream"

[comrade in disguise]

think simple- anti-tank ditch dug at steep angles, false bridges,murder holes with poles and camo neting and grass over it, stuff like that. It would be quite deadly if you built fake bridges. the entire crew would be dispatched in seconds.

[Efraim]

anti-tank ditch dug at steep angles, false bridges,murder holes with poles and camo neting and grass over it, stuff like that. It would be quite deadly if you built fake bridges.

Yeah sure, I'll just call up the construction battalion. I mean where you going to find the time, manpower, and equipment to do that?