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National ammo shortage - where is it going

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  • thirty-thirty
    replied
    Re: National ammo shortage - where is it going

    Originally posted by Steve Marshall View Post
    thirty-thirty, since you yourself has admitted you don't know how manufacturing works, how about buying stock in Alcoa.
    I don't invest in paper assets. I invest in physical silver and land and both have done right by me. If I wanted to profit on ammo, I would buy ammo. Actually I did, but I can't bring myself to part with it.

    BTW, I did a very lucrative land trade with ALCOA about 15 years ago which put me in retirement. I haven't had a job since.

    Leave a comment:


  • billt
    replied
    Re: National ammo shortage - where is it going

    Originally posted by thirty-thirty View Post
    You may go back to sleep now.
    At least I know when I'm dreaming.

    Leave a comment:


  • Steve Marshall
    replied
    Re: National ammo shortage - where is it going

    thirty-thirty, since you yourself has admitted you don't know how manufacturing works, how about buying stock in Alcoa. If you haven't done so yet, try reading various posts on different websites to find out what is really going on. You presuppose that centerfire ammunition is being bought up by the government to keep it out of civilian hands. In addition, apparently the government is buying up all the rimfire ammunition too. Ludicrous. At the height of our foreign peace keeping mission, the military was using 1.7 billion small arm rounds a year. That was in 2007. The US civilian ammunition production is something on the order of 9-10 billion a year. That is approx. 5 billion rimfire and 4 billion centerfire and shotgun. So according to you, the government is buying up what, 50% of the domestic output worth several billion dollars a year? How do they use/store/hide that much ammunition? Where do they put it? How come not one person on any of these boards has come forward with these secrets? The simple answer is panic buying. Just like the two previous primer shortages. Just like the Clinton and Obama ammunition shortages.
    Fairly soon, the panic buyers will be sated and/or unable to justify the expense. And fairly soon the bottom will drop out on the ammunition supply scare. Were I you, especially since you seem so concerned, I'd save my pennies for the bargains that are sure to come.

    Leave a comment:


  • ISC
    replied
    Re: National ammo shortage - where is it going

    Much of the ammo being hoarded is due to people having lost all confidence in the stock market and the strength of the dollar. I stopped putting cash into my IRA and am focusing on paying off all loans and debts.

    I'm still buying ammo whenever I see it at a good priced though.

    Ammo is a commodity like pork bellies or oil, it just isn't traded by the bourgeois on Wall street wearing suits. Instead, it's traded by the bubbas on main street wearing denim, camo, and khaki. It is made from other commodities which are traded by brokers though. The price of copper brass, and lead have gone up alot too, but price increases aren't due to an increase in the cost of materials. The vast majority of the increase is due to increased demand, and MOST of that increased demand is due to hoarding and stockpiling. I've got enough to suit my purposes for anything but a platoon vs platoon firefight, but I am not prepping for open combat against an organized military force.

    I've made plans for my guns and ammo to be used by me and my people for generations. I've made sure that at least some of them are sure to remain legal despite even the most draconian gun control laws. When I read stories about proposals that would put prohibitive taxes on ammo Hoarding ammo seems like an even better idea, and I have to think that many other people are thinking the same way.

    Leave a comment:


  • thirty-thirty
    replied
    Re: National ammo shortage - where is it going

    Originally posted by billt View Post
    When you can prove this to be fact, you then will have an argument. You cannot. Gun Control makes perfect sense. What makes none is trying to tie it to consumer ammo production by privately owned companies. You're looking for things that simply do not exist. As I said, not everything is a government conspiracy.
    1) Nothing is ever decided behind closed doors.
    2) Our rulers are idiots.
    3) You may go back to sleep now.

    Leave a comment:


  • billt
    replied
    Re: National ammo shortage - where is it going

    Originally posted by thirty-thirty View Post
    If a few majors are limiting production, there certainly are many independents who are not.
    When you can prove this to be fact, you then will have an argument. You cannot. Gun Control makes perfect sense. What makes none is trying to tie it to consumer ammo production by privately owned companies. You're looking for things that simply do not exist. As I said, not everything is a government conspiracy.

    Leave a comment:


  • thirty-thirty
    replied
    Re: National ammo shortage - where is it going

    Originally posted by jefferson101 View Post
    You really ought to go to work for the Global Warming folks. You are quite adept at drawing a conclusion and then trying to force the facts to fit it.
    I haven't really drawn any conclusions. I admit the possibility (though not probability) that your argument is correct. We're just discussing what is possible and what is probable. Damned little is 100% certain.

    Having already admitted how deceitful the mass media is, there is no reason that you should be accepting the mass media version of what's going on as the "default mode" whenever there isn't absolute 100% certian proof they're fibbing.

    Leave a comment:


  • jefferson101
    replied
    Re: National ammo shortage - where is it going

    Originally posted by thirty-thirty View Post
    Since there is no real pro-gun mass media, if someone followed the above trail and found that the DHS was buying .22 LR in huge quantities, the only way he could get the information out would be on some obscure website, and he would be labeled a "conspiracy theorist". Those who would actually take the steps to verify it at it's source, if they even could, would be too few to make a difference in the perceptions of the masses.When we already know how biased and deceitful the mass media is, all we can do is speculate on what is probable.
    That's the choice....speculate or swallow.
    Since the media has their firm grip on the evidence funnel, we discuss what is strategic.
    You really ought to go to work for the Global Warming folks. You are quite adept at drawing a conclusion and then trying to force the facts to fit it.

    I hate to tell you, but you have fallen in among a bunch of heritic "deniers". We should probably all be sent off to re-education camps to have our minds put right, don't you think?

    Leave a comment:


  • thirty-thirty
    replied
    Re: National ammo shortage - where is it going

    Originally posted by jefferson101 View Post
    How did we know that Homeland Security is buying up a bunch of centerfire ammo? The Purchase Orders and/or Contracts are public record. So are the requests for bids that are issued to determine who gets the Contract in the first place.
    Since there is no real pro-gun mass media, if someone followed the above trail and found that the DHS was buying .22 LR in huge quantities, the only way he could get the information out would be on some obscure website, and he would be labeled a "conspiracy theorist". Those who would actually take the steps to verify it at it's source, if they even could, would be too few to make a difference in the perceptions of the masses.

    That's not definitive evidence, but what do you have that says otherwise? (Apart from some vague speculation?)
    When we already know how biased and deceitful the mass media is, all we can do is speculate on what is probable.
    That's the choice....speculate or swallow.
    Since the media has their firm grip on the evidence funnel, we discuss what is strategic.

    Leave a comment:


  • jefferson101
    replied
    Re: National ammo shortage - where is it going

    Originally posted by thirty-thirty View Post
    Good point.

    So how do we know if either
    1) The govt is buying .22 LR "for practice".
    2) The manufacturers are limiting .22 LR production.

    ?
    How did we know that Homeland Security is buying up a bunch of centerfire ammo? The Purchase Orders and/or Contracts are public record. So are the requests for bids that are issued to determine who gets the Contract in the first place.

    As far as your #2, you'd have to talk to someone who works at one of the places where they make it. Everything I've heard on it says they are going and blowing as fast and as hard as they can. That's not definitive evidence, but what do you have that says otherwise? (Apart from some vague speculation?)

    Leave a comment:


  • thirty-thirty
    replied
    Re: National ammo shortage - where is it going

    Originally posted by billt View Post
    Not to mention consumer based ammo and component companies like Nosler, Barnes, Sierra, Hornady, Bufflao Bore, Cor-Bon, and about 100 others I'm forgetting at the moment.
    If a few majors are limiting production, there certainly are many independents who are not. .22 LR is a caliber that, compared to centerfire, is mostly produced by the larger corporations, which could explain why it has been hit the hardest.

    Originally posted by billt View Post
    Because it makes no sense what so ever for them to do either.
    Gun control makes no sense either....at least not for those who fail to think in strategic terms. For those of us who, it makes perfect sense.

    Leave a comment:


  • billt
    replied
    Re: National ammo shortage - where is it going

    Originally posted by thirty-thirty View Post
    So how do we know if either
    1) The govt is buying .22 LR "for practice".
    2) The manufacturers are limiting .22 LR production?
    Because it makes no sense what so ever for them to do either.

    Leave a comment:


  • thirty-thirty
    replied
    Re: National ammo shortage - where is it going

    Originally posted by jefferson101 View Post
    The only glaring hole in all that is the fact that .22LR is what is the shortest, or at least it seems that way to me.

    Equipment that manufactures .22LR is not going to be changed over to make another caliber. It's dedicated strictly to that one round. Unless the .Gov has suddenly started snatching up vast quantities of .22, the shortage is caused by expansion of the civilian market.
    Good point.
    Again it comes down to motive. If our rulers are buying up all the ammo to keep it out of the hands of private citizens, then that itself is the motive, rather than buying it up to use in their own weapons.

    .22 LR is used by the shooting public for practice and training. It's also serves as an introductory round for new shooters, which leads to further interest in firearms of other calibers, and support for the 2nd Ammendment in general. That said, one cannot say there is no strategic value in limiting it's production.

    So how do we know if either
    1) The govt is buying .22 LR "for practice".
    2) The manufacturers are limiting .22 LR production.

    ?

    Leave a comment:


  • billt
    replied
    Re: National ammo shortage - where is it going

    Originally posted by jefferson101 View Post
    The only glaring hole in all that is the fact that .22LR is what is the shortest, or at least it seems that way to me.

    Equipment that manufactures .22LR is not going to be changed over to make another caliber. It's dedicated strictly to that one round. Unless the .Gov has suddenly started snatching up vast quantities of .22, the shortage is caused by expansion of the civilian market.
    Excellent point. To think this is some type of government conspiracy is asinine. Ammunition manufacturers could not sustain themselves with government contracts alone, any more than gun companies could. Colt, FN, and Lake City supply most of what the government requires for military small arms and ammunition. Beretta would go broke if they had to survive on government M-9 sales alone. They existed for 400 years before the United States government came along and wanted a few M-9's from them. Not to mention consumer based ammo and component companies like Nosler, Barnes, Sierra, Hornady, Bufflao Bore, Cor-Bon, and about 100 others I'm forgetting at the moment.

    Most gun companies like Marlin, Browning, and Weatherby are 100% consumer based and driven. People need to stop seeing black helicopters in their coffee every morning.

    Leave a comment:


  • jefferson101
    replied
    Re: National ammo shortage - where is it going

    Originally posted by thirty-thirty View Post
    This is only true if the sole motivator is profit.

    OK. Suppose you're working 2 shifts, 40 hours a week each. By increasing to 3 shifts plus weekends, you increase production 144% minus down time.

    I doubt demand for ammo is up much more than that.

    Now here's another angle. suppose they are at maximum possible production and most of it is going to federal agencies. Put yourself in their boots. You see where all this is going.
    You see that they're trying to divert ammo to the public sector to prevent the private sector from getting it. What is the future in this for you, the ammo manufacturer? Would you remain silent and sell most of your product to a temporary customer? You know they plan to do this only until they get the right Bolshevik laws passed, then you have no business anymore.

    If I were in their shoes I would be screaming bloody murder and selling only to the private sector....unless I was in with the Bolsheviks.
    The only glaring hole in all that is the fact that .22LR is what is the shortest, or at least it seems that way to me.

    Equipment that manufactures .22LR is not going to be changed over to make another caliber. It's dedicated strictly to that one round. Unless the .Gov has suddenly started snatching up vast quantities of .22, the shortage is caused by expansion of the civilian market.

    Leave a comment:

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