Uly 762x39 FMJ frag ? no , but ....

[Yoda-Dad]

no

6 shots at single waterjugs (4.5" , 2L) with a cardboard box bottom stapled standing up 15" behind . ~2375 fps ave. , shot at 30ft. distance . no fragment holes , just whole bullets .
curiously , every shot yeilded a perfect keyholed 'print' that displayed a little ooz of lead out the base and a sometimes wider than .310" base , sometimes thinner . the keyholes alternated from pointing at 6 O'clock to pointing 12 O'clock to pointing 6 O'clock ........ through 6 shots . ? . things that make ya go huh . obviously , they all yawed quick and flattend some .

will have to investigate further since i've never shot the other US67 and M67 bullets this close up to waterjugs . at 100M the other FMJs dont yaw hitting 4.5" of water with any regularity , maybe 1 or 2 out of 10 at best .

[ July 14, 2004, 22:45: Message edited by: Yoda-Dad ]

[Yoda-Dad]

just a quick test @100M but , no doubt about it now .

over the last 5 years or so i've shot many makers/countries M67 type bullets at water jugs . they all have minor maufacturer variations in LOA , base-heel-crimp , base indentation ...
...the Ulyanovsk made M67 FMJ bullet is a little different , has a small airspace tip and no base-indent in the core . apparently , this is enough to tip the 'ballance' scales too sure and early yaw .

all the other M67 and 'US'67 FullMetalJacket-FlatBase bullets require that a certain amout of mass be struck within a certain range , for them to do more than just poke a .30 calibre hole . they have to hit something equal to MORE THAN 4.5" of water @100M . 5.5" will cause them to yaw

lined up 8 2L water jugs next to each other (4.5" thick) @100M with a heavy carboard backer at 1" behind them and 5" behind . shot them with the BrownBear Barnaul FMJ , which i discoverd were loaded with Ulyanovsk made M67 bullets fitting the description . every hit registerd on the first backer as haveing yawed around to about 120/140deg. (more base-first than sideways) . on the second cardboard backer , variations on ~45deg keyholes with the POINT hitting first .

it would seem then , this bullet not only yaws hitting less mass but , is capable of 2 yaw cycles WITHIN the thickness of the average human torso , unlike all the other bullets of this type .

this was just preliminary , to see if further testing is warranted .
years of messing with these things and still learning about all these variations .

[MartinS]

Did Fackler use steel core for the test series that showed no yaw? Maybe all the all lead stuff we get is an entirely different breed of cat.

[Yoda-Dad]

there cant be a steelcore M67 .

spec.grv. of steel = about 8
spec.grv. of lead = about 11

a steelcore M67 bullet would be as long as an M43 in order to be 122/125 grns in weight.

M43 = ~1.05" LOA , ogive length = ~.6" ,boat tail
M67 = ~0.910" LOA , ogive length = ~.6" , flatbase w/core indent
US67 = ~0.850" LOA , ogive length = ~.5" , flatbase w/no core indent

go to tactical forums , in terminal effects , search for a thread titled ".30 carbine ...(something,something)..." and you'll find recent jello tests on many milsurp cartridges .

the only thing i'll add to them is that 'US'67 fmj bullets as loaded by WW , Rem , Fed , Lapua , etc... act more like the 7.92x33mmKurtz , which acts only slightly different from 762x39 M67 . and of course they do ... being more closely similar in shape and ballance too the Kurtz bullet .

[ July 15, 2004, 15:18: Message edited by: Yoda-Dad ]

[MartinS]

So the M43 is as it is because in wartime they needed the economy of a steel core and shaped the bullet to make it work?

[Yoda-Dad]

i cant lay it all on economy .

from the standpoint of the soviets being impressed with the 'assaultcarbine' , they surely improved on the 7.92x33kurtz all around and made it their concept .

i'm sure they had the verygood materials penetration benefits of it in mind , after all , they were fighting a highly mechanized army in fast moveing , urban settings .

common M43 only needed a slight improvement in wound ballistics , which it got in the 'improved' version .