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9mm Terminology

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  • 9mm Terminology

    What are all the 9x?? ammunition? like 9x19,9x18

    &

    Is there any difference between 9x18 and .380 Auto?

    Edit: I almost forgot this question:

    Why is 9mm (9x19) sometimes called 9mm Luger and sometimes called 9mm Parabellum?

    [ 07. January 2004, 12:40: Message edited by: NozlerAtClemson ]

  • #2
    9x19 is your regular 9mm ammo. 9x18 is like a 9mm short used in guns like the Makarov.

    Found this for you.

    Can I fire .380 ACP ammo in my 9x18M Makarov?
    NO NO NO NO NO !!! There are those that disagree with me including an author of an article in Handguns magazine and gun dealers who wants to sell you a Makarov. The 9x18M cartridge is not a "true" 9mm because it's really 9.2mm. Therefore the bullets are sized .364" and .365" (barrel sizes vary...slugging yours is best to find out your bore size). Yes, you can probably get away with it a few times, but accuracy will suffer, you'll get gas blow-by, your barrel will wear out faster and for what? Save a few pennies? Hardly. 9x18M ammo is usually cheaper since you can get it surplus. If you absolutely want to shoot .380 ACP ammo from your Makarov, then buy a .380 Makarov or a .380 replacement barrel.

    For a car analogy, have you ever seen or owned a car that burned oil? How long did the engine last after it started blowing blue smoke? Probably not long. The reason is that the pistons and rings are now smaller than the cylinders and each explosion sends gasses by-passing the piston ("blow-by"). You're literally burning the sides of your pistons now and engine death is imminent. That's basically what you're doing by shooting undersized bullets.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    I have a .380 ACP pistol and want a little more power. Can I shoot 9x18M in it?
    ABSOLUTELY NOT!!! This is even worse than the other way around. The bullet is too big (.364") to fit into the barrel (.356"), the cartridge will probably not even chamber, and even if it does, you may blow the gun and yourself up. Really, 9x18M Makarovs are not that expensive...just get one if you want to fire 9x18M. You can also change the barrel and you gun will now fire 9x18M. And if you want more power, get a .454 Casull.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    How about 9mm Parabellum? It fits in the chamber.
    Holy smokes...what are you trying to do? Kill yourself?!? 9mm Parabellum is a very high pressure round intended for locked-breech pistols. Look, fire .380 ACP from a .380 ACP pistol. Fire 9x18 M from a 9x18 M pistol. Fire 9mm Parabellum from a 9mm pistol. It's that simple. If you want multi- calibers, get a .357 Magnum; then you can fire .38 Special from it.

    [ 07. January 2004, 13:56: Message edited by: TheMrMitch ]
    Youth And Brawn Are No Match For Age And Treachery.
    I'm Old And May Not Fight. I'll Shoot Instead.

    USMC 1959/1963

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    • #3
      Ok, got that. What is 9mm Kurtz?

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by NozlerAtClemson:
        Ok, got that. What is 9mm Kurtz?
        Now here I thought I was doin' great...
        Gonna hafta go look for that later...hehheh.

        Well, it took about 5 minutes:
        The .380 ACP is nothing other than a short 9mm (its German name, in fact, 9mm Kurtz, literally translates as 9mm Short),

        [ 07. January 2004, 15:25: Message edited by: TheMrMitch ]
        Youth And Brawn Are No Match For Age And Treachery.
        I'm Old And May Not Fight. I'll Shoot Instead.

        USMC 1959/1963

        Comment


        • #5
          Yeah but you forgot a few. 9mm Largo, 9mm Steyr, 9mm Win Mag, 9mm Glisenti.

          Comment


          • #6
            and Luger = Parabellum?

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            • #7
              Originally posted by NozlerAtClemson:
              and Luger = Parabellum?
              Yep. 9x19mm.

              European designation is 9mm Parabellum. (Parabellum...Latin word "For War". IE, 9mm Military.)

              When it started coming in over here, after WWI, it was for the Luger. Hence, the US designation of it as 9mm Luger.

              But they are both the same animal.

              Edited to note that it's simpler in metric. .380 is 9x17mm. 9mm Makarov is 9x18mm, usually noted as 9x18 Mak or 9x18M, and 9mm Parabellum (or Luger) is 9x19mm.

              Of course, as noted, the bullet diameters are different, too. But unless you are reloading, the length is pretty much enough to keep you from shooting the wrong thing!

              [ 07. January 2004, 21:06: Message edited by: jefferson101 ]
              Alle Kunst ist umsunst Wenn ein Engel auf das Zundloch brunzet (All skill is in vain if an angel pisses down the touch-hole of your musket.) Old German Folk Wisdom.

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              • #8
                dont forget the 9MM Mars !

                9MM Mauser too . mite be a few more 9MM Mauser cartridges rolling around under your sofa than the Mars tho ...

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                • #9
                  And let's not forget the 9x21mm for countries that ban the use of 9x19mm (i.e. 9mm Luger/Parabellum) ammo for its civilians, and Winchester's own 9x23mm Win.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by NozlerAtClemson:
                    Ok, got that. What is 9mm Kurtz?
                    The cal the Germans used for the Sturmgewehr...approximately 74 thousands of an
                    inch shorter than the 9mm Luger cartridge.
                    The correct spelling is Kurz for short.
                    48° 8' 24" N 11° 34' 30" E

                    “...das Fallschirmjägerbataillon 252... auf dem Eisberg in Nagold machte sich durch Leistung und Härte einen Namen.”

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                    • #11
                      The 9mm Kurtz round was NOT used in the Sturmgewehr (MP-43 StG-44 etc.), they used the 7,92x33 Kurtz assault rifle round.

                      Pistol rounds are used for real submachineguns, not the sturmgewehr assault rifles.

                      The 9mm Kurtz (.380 ACP) was used in a small extent by the Germans and other countries but the Germans prefered the 7,65x17ACP (.32ACP).

                      The Germans also had a 9x18mm cartridge in development during or before WWII called the 9mm Ultra and later resurrected the idea in the 1970s. The concept was basically the same as the 9x18Makarov-a more powerful 9mm round that could still be used in a conventional pocket blowback pistol w/o need for a locked breech or strong spring like an Astra 400.

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                      • #12
                        I stand corrected.
                        48° 8' 24" N 11° 34' 30" E

                        “...das Fallschirmjägerbataillon 252... auf dem Eisberg in Nagold machte sich durch Leistung und Härte einen Namen.”

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Here is a brief rundown:

                          9mm 9x19mm 9mm Luger 9mm Parabellum 9mm NATO -- These are all designations for the 9mm automatic round that is most common in the US and all over. When people talk about a 9mm, they are probably discussing this round. The Beretta 92, Glock 17, Browning Hi-Power, etcetera are examples of 9mm guns.

                          9x18mm, 9mm Makarov: Cartridge used in the Makarov pistols and some other Russian sidearms. No western European or American firm uses the 9x18mm designation that I know of.

                          .380 ACP 9mm Short/Kurz/Corto: This is the .380 as we have come to know it in this country. In Europe it is known as the 9mm short or Kurz round.

                          9x21mm: This is a larger version of the standard 9mm auto round. The case is a couple of milimeters longer (sort of like the same thing you get between a .38 special and a .357 magnum) and it develops a higher pressure. I am unaware of any American firm that produces 9x21mm guns at the moment. This chambering was popular in IPSC shooting for a while and is still fairly common in Europe in many countries that forbid owning firearms in military chamberings. (Which means there are a lot of Europeans who can't own 9mm NATO guns...)

                          9mm Steyr -- Dunno anything about this round

                          9mm Largo -- Dunno anything about this one either.

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