OK Let us settle ALL battle rifle questions and positions and ,,,,

[LAWCOP]

SUCh,
ONCE AND FOR ALL.


1- Let us ALL AGREE there is NO SUCH THING as a MBR in .22 PERIOD
NO FURTHER discussion on this point is needed EVER...

I do NOT care how wonderful your little .22 is, Imagine a world where you may have to square off against an opponent at 1200 yds across an open field of fire and the winner will be the one who kills first. You WILL not be able to throw that plastic POS far enough fast enough as you look for even a bolt Mauser from WWI to use for engagement.

A .22 will NEVER be a MBR, GET OVER IT, no matter how many gadgets and gewgaws and doodads you clip, fasten, screw or bolt onto it, IT WILL NOT CUT IT.

2- THE AK47- Truly one of the greatest weapons systems the world has ever seen, IF you need a weapon for CQB... BUT... it too is not to be considered a MAIN BATTLE RIFLE. Do not believe me, put yourself in the above scenario and ask yourself if you wish to start engagement at 1200 yds, if truthful you will throw the AK just as fast and far as the plastic POS and trade it off willingly for a bolt gun in appropriate caliber.

3- The SECOND BEST MBR in the world has already been made and has been around since WWII That is the GARAND.
Its progeny was born in the workshops where it was rechambered and made better in the M14. THE GREATEST MBR EVER.

You need never go any farther. It will simply outshoot and outlast any other competitor and if it does ever break(I put over 40,000 rounds through one shooting competition and never broke a part. After that I stopped counting.) you can find parts all over the planet.

THUS endeth the lesson.

You are welcome.

[Mac's!]

Re: OK Let us settle ALL battle rifle questions and positions and ,,,,

Yeah yeah yeah! I'll agree with you on the .22 "Battle Rifle" and the AK47's "closer range battle rifle" and will even say that the M1 Garand is the Grand Daddy of them all but it ends there!!! The FN-Fal is the greatest all time main battle rifle of all time forever and bar none!!! Lookit here...the M14 is a great rifle..that goes without saying but the FN-Fal has been used by more countries and is still in use by a whole bunch of them. Where's the M14 still used today? By a few Special Forces units! The FN-Fal and the STG-58! That's where it's at!!!

[Herr Walther]

Re: OK Let us settle ALL battle rifle questions and positions and ,,,,

Both wonderful rifles. Even built an StG.58 from a new, matching parts kit, but even after more than a dozen years, nothing scratches my MBR itch like a roller locked HK or clone.

GIT SUM!!!

[Harlock]

Re: OK Let us settle ALL battle rifle questions and positions and ,,,,

No question IMHO the answer is FAL Metric.

I have friends that got the century STG's and the workmanship / marksmanship suffered. Right now I hate to take it out due to replacement parts costs and it's now the failsafe rifle.

I hate the carry handle but love the bolt hold open. Magazine exchanges are easy. Magazine costs are too expensive.

[Southern Shark]

Re: OK Let us settle ALL battle rifle questions and positions and ,,,,

What if you had a Garand chambered for 22-250? What would that be?

[Hawk45]

Re: OK Let us settle ALL battle rifle questions and positions and ,,,,

What if you had a Garand chambered for 22-250? What would that be?

An abomination! LOL

[Black Pete]

Re: OK Let us settle ALL battle rifle questions and positions and ,,,,

OK if you say so!

[Hawk45]

Re: OK Let us settle ALL battle rifle questions and positions and ,,,,

I have carried the M-21, a standard Metric Fal, and an H&K in actual combat. Of the three the M-21 was the most accurate, but it took a whole Match ordnance section going over it after every mission. The H&K is ideal in temperate or artic environments, but in the jungle the front trunion leaving the rifle after rusting thru from the inside out left me NOT trusting it. H&K does not like folks talking about that. That is the main reason I left the company when it came out as they tried to hush it up. The FAL for combat is a VERY nice compromise. Accurate enough to kill a man to 600-800 yards, easy to clean with no special tools. Best is it is ergonomically friendly to both right and left handers.

Main thing in actual combat, use what is comfortable and what YOU trust. For me I have both M-1a's and FALs. I sold ALL of my H&K's when I left the company and have not looked back or have any regrets. I still do have my belt buckle I got when I worked for the company though as it has a nice MSG90 on it in silver against a solid brass background. They sold them to folks back 30 years ago, but like everything else they sell, it was WAY too high for what it is. LOL

Herr Walther, shoot and enjoy your rifle as they are VERY good. Just not for me. BTW you may want to add an ejection port buffer to protect your electronic sight. They tried to throw brass into my scopes occasionally until I added them to both my 91, MSG90, and it came with my PSG1.

[LAWCOP]

Re: OK Let us settle ALL battle rifle questions and positions and ,,,,

NEVER carried a FAL in harms way. I know they work but they never fit me like the M14. Tossed the wood in favor of the plastic because a lot of wet humid weather made the wood swell and also it removed a LOT of weight. I also a couple of times went out with that hated POS plastic fantastic and even ventured forth a few times with an AK47. It all just depended on what was happening at the time.

But I always returned to the Garand bastard child. It fit, it worked and the sights were something that allowed engagement beyond anything else on the armory.

If the world plunged into darkness tomorrow and all I had to do was walk across the room to pick up a plastic POS or I could get a M14/M1A but I would have to crawl a mile across broken glass, I would pad myself up and start crawling.

[Truckinschmuck]

Re: OK Let us settle ALL battle rifle questions and positions and ,,,,

I often wonder what an M1A in 6.5 Creedmor would be like.

[Sarge]

Re: OK Let us settle ALL battle rifle questions and positions and ,,,,

Well, I've got both the M1A AND an M14 select fire rifles, But if we had an SHTF problem arise I would leave them in the driveway for whoever came along and wanted them!!!
I would go out the door with my FN/FAL select fire rifle. It is the most accurate full size rifle I have ever shot in full auto! I can consistantly hold a 3 rd burst in a 12" circle at around 300 yds.
In contrast the M14 in full auto is a royal POS!!! IF you hit the target the first shot that will be the end of your accuracy because the rest of them will be up to 2+ feet high and to the right. It is near impossible to control!
Since I deal only with select fire weapons for my personal use I don't care how accurate anything is in semi! IF I need it in FA I also Need it to be very accurate! Also accurate in FA translates to equally accurate in semi auto.
Sarge

[Mac's!]

Re: OK Let us settle ALL battle rifle questions and positions and ,,,,

Besides my "regular job" with the County, I owned and operated a firearms refinishing/gunsmithing business for quite a few years. I got to take apart and examine a lot of firearms. I enjoyed seeing how things functioned as part of a system. One of the benefits of that business, was that if I wanted a new firearm I just had to wait for one to show up so I could take it apart and look at how it was put together. Sometimes, that made me drool for one even more and other times, it made me decide against that particular one.

After much thought, examinations and a couple of autopsies, I decided on the STG-58. I obtained an original Austrian parade ground demilled rifle and an Imbel Gear Logo receiver and went to work building it. Now I have an STG-58 that is just about perfect in every way and suits ME!

I'm old and have old eyes so I did break from original and mounted a scope on it. I used one of those heavy Aluminum receiver cover types but it did slide a little. The problem was the mounting clamps system so I machined out a new and heavier set. Several K rounds later and it's still holding a perfect zero. Overall, I love it and will keep it.

[Herr Walther]

Re: OK Let us settle ALL battle rifle questions and positions and ,,,,

That really is the only drawback of the FN/FAL StG.58 type rifle. Mounting optics securely has always been a PITA.

I really liked my matching numbers new StG.58 too, but not more than my PTR91.

[LAWCOP]

Re: OK Let us settle ALL battle rifle questions and positions and ,,,,

Well, I've got both the M1A AND an M14 select fire rifles, But if we had an SHTF problem arise I would leave them in the driveway for whoever came along and wanted them!!!
I would go out the door with my FN/FAL select fire rifle. It is the most accurate full size rifle I have ever shot in full auto! I can consistantly hold a 3 rd burst in a 12" circle at around 300 yds.
In contrast the M14 in full auto is a royal POS!!! IF you hit the target the first shot that will be the end of your accuracy because the rest of them will be up to 2+ feet high and to the right. It is near impossible to control!
Since I deal only with select fire weapons for my personal use I don't care how accurate anything is in semi! IF I need it in FA I also Need it to be very accurate! Also accurate in FA translates to equally accurate in semi auto.
Sarge

I AGREE, that the M14 in FA is a monster to control.
BUT
The ONLY time for FA fire with any of the MBR is when they are "in or over the wire" and at those ranges it will sweep very effectively. HUGE adrenaline rush time and all that.
Otherwise I never tried to group FA fire with one. I found one round apiece worked just fine and again it was at ranges at times when the "opposition" could barely hear the shot let alone seeing the flash or have a clue where you were. You put enough rounds downrange with one and you can be amazed what you can do with irons.

There may be newer and fancier and lighter and more whizzbang
BUT
I sit here today because my "big gun" never did NOT do what I needed done. THAT M14/M1A platform just fit me right. It is why I shot it for rifle competition for 20+ years and is why I know how many rounds went down range without ever breaking.

I would rather be able to keep the BGs a LLLLOOOONNNNGGGG way away rather than have to hose them up close, and to be able to do that you will have to be able to reach out and touch effectively to make them believers.

Just my way of thinking

[Reasonable Rascal]

Re: OK Let us settle ALL battle rifle questions and positions and ,,,,

One of the worst decisions of my life was parting with a pre-ban HK91. Oh sure, I made about $500 on the deal, but still...

RR