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  • Degree of machining on receiver to be "firearm".

    The term 80% finished, when talking about AR-15 (AR-10) lowers is ambigous, at best.
    Hey, I've even used the term, without thinking about what was being discussed. It's all a matter of reference.

    Consider this.

    You buy an AR-15 forging from a source that has the magazine well EDM wire cut, the mag release mechanism pockets done, the pivot pin and take-down pin drilled to size.
    As well, they may have the buffer tube drilled and threaded, including buffer detent hole drilled.

    This is sold as 80% complete, and according to the ATF, is NOT necessary to sell or purchase via an FFL dealer.

    With me so far?

    The billet for a CNC build-up is a rectangular piece of stock with a specific metallurgical property, PERIOD. That's it, nothing more.

    What amount of machining is necessary, to achieve 80% of the state a finished receiver?

    It's certainly not even close, compared to the afore mentioned "forged" item, which posses the recesses and extensions of the main body, via the forging process.
    CNC processes remove all the metal on the exterior to achieve what the forging die does with several strokes of the hammer.

    Per the definition below, I openly concede the ATF's Technology Division provided a very concise and definite answer.

    They stated,
    in order to be considered "completely solid and unmachined in the fire control recess area,"the take-down pin lug clearance area must be no longer than .800 inch, measured from immediately forward of the front of the buffer retainer hole.
    The above bold quote dated Jul 05, 2011, was taken from a letter to American Spirit Arms.

    And, by that definition, a person can machine every other portion of the lower receiver, and legally sell and buy, without an FFL transfer.

    The reason I posted all this is, I'm going to be offering AR-15 and AR-10 lowers under the ATF defined rules of a non-firearm lower.

    There will be several options for these items.

    NOTE: (ano = anodizing)



    AR-10 and AR-15 lowers:

    • 6061 raw, no ano
      6061 black ano
      7075 raw, no ano
      7075 black ano

    There will be several different layout options on the shape of receiver forward and the bottom of the magwell, as well as trigger opening sizes.

    I've posted a tentative interest list in the For Sale Forum.

    Questions, or comments are welcome and appreciated.
    Last edited by Iowegan; February 6, 2013, 18:53.
    [CENTER][SIZE=1]“Corruptissima republica plurimae leges,”[/SIZE][/CENTER]
    [CENTER][SIZE=1]“The more corrupt the republic, the more numerous the laws.”[/SIZE][/CENTER]

    [CENTER][SIZE=1]Publius Cornelius Tacitus[/SIZE][/CENTER]
    [CENTER][SIZE=1][/SIZE] [/CENTER]
    [CENTER][SIZE=1]Sic Semper Tyrannis[/SIZE][/CENTER]

  • #2
    Re: Degree of machining on receiver to be "firearm".

    I WOULD be interested in BOTH types of 80% receivers. That maybe the only way I will ever be able to get into a 308 AR.

    Like the old Johnny Cash song.....'One Part at a Time'!

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    • #3
      Re: Degree of machining on receiver to be "firearm".

      Depending on the price, I may have interest in one. I'm ignorant about grades of the metal. What is the difference between 6160 and 7075? I feel like asking which is better but, if it was that simple, you would be offering only one, I guess.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Degree of machining on receiver to be "firearm".

        Hawk45, I'll put your name on the list.

        I'm going to have a couple of these myself.

        danny, the information here explains it pretty well, without getting into the molecular differences between the 2 metals.
        And, as I'd said before, unless you were seriously expecting battle conditions, there is no reason to go 7075. Based upon economics, alone.

        And, as the illustrations show, mostly because of the tooling required and CNC time involved, machine useage, etc., forgings are cheaper. Not necessarily better, but cheaper.
        And, the biggest difference between the 2 is PRICE, 7075 is 2.5 x that of 6061.


        I'm in the layout and planning stages with my first lower now.
        [CENTER][SIZE=1]“Corruptissima republica plurimae leges,”[/SIZE][/CENTER]
        [CENTER][SIZE=1]“The more corrupt the republic, the more numerous the laws.”[/SIZE][/CENTER]

        [CENTER][SIZE=1]Publius Cornelius Tacitus[/SIZE][/CENTER]
        [CENTER][SIZE=1][/SIZE] [/CENTER]
        [CENTER][SIZE=1]Sic Semper Tyrannis[/SIZE][/CENTER]

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        • #5
          Re: Degree of machining on receiver to be "firearm".

          Is the machining any more expensive with 7075 due to the hardness?

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          • #6
            Re: Degree of machining on receiver to be "firearm".

            I too would be interested depending on price in one of each type (AR-15/AR-10).
            "SI *VIS *PACEM, *PARA *BELLUM"
            [URL]http://survivalblog.com[/URL]
            MOLON LABE!
            AC0XV

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Degree of machining on receiver to be "firearm".

              Originally posted by danny View Post
              Is the machining any more expensive with 7075 due to the hardness?
              No, it seems to be costs associated with the composition of the allow itself.

              I priced the two, and the 7075 came in at the price differential I'd mentioned. That is raw billet bulk prices. Not bulk in the context it is 20,000lbs, but enough that, it isn't a single 8" long piece, either.


              It seems that most retailers prices on the 7075 CNC lower are running just under $200, on a CNC part. Less, on a forging.
              The big problem is, none of them I've found, have anything in stock, and many have posted a late 2013 date for catchup, if then.
              [CENTER][SIZE=1]“Corruptissima republica plurimae leges,”[/SIZE][/CENTER]
              [CENTER][SIZE=1]“The more corrupt the republic, the more numerous the laws.”[/SIZE][/CENTER]

              [CENTER][SIZE=1]Publius Cornelius Tacitus[/SIZE][/CENTER]
              [CENTER][SIZE=1][/SIZE] [/CENTER]
              [CENTER][SIZE=1]Sic Semper Tyrannis[/SIZE][/CENTER]

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Degree of machining on receiver to be "firearm".

                Pricing schedule being revised, according to material prices.
                I'm working on a web site, and will post the web address when it's ready.

                Current pricing on avilable items will be listed, along with other links to familiar sites.
                Last edited by Iowegan; February 15, 2013, 18:49.
                [CENTER][SIZE=1]“Corruptissima republica plurimae leges,”[/SIZE][/CENTER]
                [CENTER][SIZE=1]“The more corrupt the republic, the more numerous the laws.”[/SIZE][/CENTER]

                [CENTER][SIZE=1]Publius Cornelius Tacitus[/SIZE][/CENTER]
                [CENTER][SIZE=1][/SIZE] [/CENTER]
                [CENTER][SIZE=1]Sic Semper Tyrannis[/SIZE][/CENTER]

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Degree of machining on receiver to be "firearm".

                  Are you going to offer the same 6061/7075 for the upper as well? All so, would you be able/willing to offer a 'matched' set? i.e. Upper and Lower from the same billet?
                  "SI *VIS *PACEM, *PARA *BELLUM"
                  [URL]http://survivalblog.com[/URL]
                  MOLON LABE!
                  AC0XV

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Degree of machining on receiver to be "firearm".

                    How much expertise would it take to finish something like this? I am in no way a machinist and have no access to a end mill to finish this out. I know you can pick up a small cheap one at harbor freight but I do not know how much experience you would need to finish it.
                    Almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!
                    Patrick Henry

                    The laws allow arms to be taken against an armed foe. Ovid

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                    • #11
                      Re: Degree of machining on receiver to be "firearm".

                      Originally posted by ah1g View Post
                      How much expertise would it take to finish something like this? I am in no way a machinist and have no access to a end mill to finish this out. I know you can pick up a small cheap one at harbor freight but I do not know how much experience you would need to finish it.
                      The cheap mills at Harbor freight have plastic gears and there are few parts available. You have to pay a little more and get belt drive. About $1500. Not much skill required IMO. Never done one but watched a video.
                      In a corrupt society, the truth can be found in what is forbidden to say.

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                      • #12
                        Re: Degree of machining on receiver to be "firearm".

                        Originally posted by Papadoc View Post
                        Are you going to offer the same 6061/7075 for the upper as well?
                        Yes.
                        All so, would you be able/willing to offer a 'matched' set? i.e. Upper and Lower from the same billet?
                        Yes, sort of, on the matched sets, uppers/lowers.
                        The billets will be from the same draw of material (12 ft runs of alloy, cut to length(billet).
                        But the metal isn't of sufficient dimension, to allow an upper and lower from the same billet. Does that make sense?
                        Anyway, I'll be cutting uppers/lower billets from the same draw of metal. As such, the exact composition of the pieces, will be the same.
                        [CENTER][SIZE=1]“Corruptissima republica plurimae leges,”[/SIZE][/CENTER]
                        [CENTER][SIZE=1]“The more corrupt the republic, the more numerous the laws.”[/SIZE][/CENTER]

                        [CENTER][SIZE=1]Publius Cornelius Tacitus[/SIZE][/CENTER]
                        [CENTER][SIZE=1][/SIZE] [/CENTER]
                        [CENTER][SIZE=1]Sic Semper Tyrannis[/SIZE][/CENTER]

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Degree of machining on receiver to be "firearm".

                          Originally posted by ah1g View Post
                          How much expertise would it take to finish something like this ---- but I do not know how much experience you would need to finish it.

                          Something elses that I was already asked about. Is there a way to finish this, after the fact?
                          Yes, there is.
                          I have a finish kit that will be available for rent, to finish these.

                          It's a 4-piece plate and drill guide that, when assembled onto the lower, you drill out metal in the FCG pocket, then use a tool, such as a Dremel with a burr to remove the metal defined by the drillings.
                          Once the drillings are done, the kit can be returned, for refund of deposit.
                          [CENTER][SIZE=1]“Corruptissima republica plurimae leges,”[/SIZE][/CENTER]
                          [CENTER][SIZE=1]“The more corrupt the republic, the more numerous the laws.”[/SIZE][/CENTER]

                          [CENTER][SIZE=1]Publius Cornelius Tacitus[/SIZE][/CENTER]
                          [CENTER][SIZE=1][/SIZE] [/CENTER]
                          [CENTER][SIZE=1]Sic Semper Tyrannis[/SIZE][/CENTER]

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Degree of machining on receiver to be "firearm".

                            Please count me in for, at least, two of them in 6061. Probably anodized. And, I'd like to get on the list to rent the finish kit.

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                            • #15
                              Re: Degree of machining on receiver to be "firearm".

                              Stating them as raw, meaning not 80% pieces?
                              Last edited by Archangel2003; February 7, 2013, 23:09.

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