Help me choose Home Defense

[HoboWithAK]

Had a talk with a neighbor who owns two houses right down the street that he rents out. To make a long story short, they are going to end up permanently in the hands of who live in them now (drug dealers) sometime soon. I've been deciding between buying a home defense weapon or a security system, and i'm going the smart way. I am curious if you guys could help me find something that will fit my needs.

The criteria
-Not a pistol
-NY State legal (AWB still exists here)
-~300-350$ new
-Compact. My house is large, but is mostly made up of small areas linked by hallways.
-Must hold atleast 6 rounds in the magazine (tube extentions welcome for shotguns)
-Must be able to be reloaded in a quick fashon.
-Reliable.
-Atleast one external, manual saftey.
-Must be able to be safely stored with a round in the chamber.
-Able to accept a lighted forend and night sights
-Proper for an urban enviroment.

I've got my own ideas, but I don't want to influence your ideas one way or another. Thanks for the help guys.

[gunhappy]

AAAHHH the Empire State...Aint it Great? Every now and again I check my driver's liscense to make sure I am not in Kalifornia If I were you, I would consider going w/ a Mossberg 500. It will hold 5+1 and you can't get a less expensive, POLITICALLY CORRECT home defense weapon. If you don't have small children running around that is. I won't advocate any loaded weapon in a house w/small children. Another way you could go is with a used S&W .38. Lots of bodies in the ground will attest to its effectiveness.I personally don't see why nite sites are needed if you have a lite source on the weapon, and you will know your homes layout wheras your intruder will not. As a last resort, there's always the house lites that you can use to startle any home invader, assuming that you will have an idea of where in the house he is. These are drug dealers after all, not Special Forces. [img]smile.gif[/img]

[dfariswheel]

Nothing says "Leave us alone" like a load of buck shot.

I'd tend NOT to recommend a pistol grip-only or folding stock due to the actual reduction in speed and effectiveness of getting fast hits on target.

Truth be told, just about any good quality pump action shotgun will fill the bill, but the Remington 870 offers more flexibility in adding accessories.
Any accessory that's made for shotguns, is made for the 870.

Don't fall into the trap of over-accessorizing the gun.
You want a real world home defense gun, not a Hollywood fantasy gun or range toy.

A shotgun offers great flexibility in ammunition and in magazine loading.
You can easily "Dutch load" the magazine with a mix of ammunition, although you're best sticking with standard buckshot loads.

In your price range with an upper limit of $350, you can get the Cadillac of defense guns, the Remington 870 Police gun.
This is the top-of-the-line in pump guns, and it's tough for a lawyer to make claims about "evil guns" when you're using the exact same gun your local police use.

A small step down is Remington's 870 Home Defense gun, which can now be bought with the factory magazine extension.

http://www.remingtonle.com
http://www.remington.com/firearms/sh...70expsyn18.htm

[ May 08, 2005, 00:38: Message edited by: dfariswheel ]

[Trifecta3]

You might also consider a Mossberg 590 A1. I bought one a while back for about 360 ish nib out the door. The 590 A1 model (20" bbl) is compact, robust, and has a big blade type front sight (you can put glowing paint on it) and a shielded aperture rear sight. It is surprisingly accurate with slugs out to about 70 yards, but the blade front sight is a big improvement over a bead for low light cqb applications.

You can't go wrong with an 870 either, but I like the placement of the safety (easily accessible to your thumb) and the action release tab on the 590 better. Having the button rear of the trigger guard, where your fingers naturally rest, instead of in front of it works better for me.

[jensenmk]

As I am formerly from NY, go with the 870. You can get one for your target price, although to add the light and things will cause you to double or triple the price. Look at Wilson for a ready to go 870 meeting all your criteria.

You don't mention why a pistol is out, but I would certainly do what I had to to get my CCW (I've had my NYS CCW since I was 18). Then buy a Glock (with night sights)for when the shotty won't work (out and about, etc). I have a G19 that I bought about 5 years after I got my CCW, to replace my WWII 1911 and Hi-Power that I had carried.

Now if you live in NYC (and/or anywhere southeast of the Catskills (East of Hancock or South of Saugerties), then I feel your pain. I would move to the real Upstate.

[ May 08, 2005, 12:03: Message edited by: jensenmk ]

[HoboWithAK]

Originally posted by jensenmk:
As I am formerly from NY, go with the 870. You can get one for your target price, although to add the light and things will cause you to double or triple the price. Look at Wilson for a ready to go 870 meeting all your criteria.

You don't mention why a pistol is out, but I would certainly do what I had to to get my CCW (I've had my NYS CCW since I was 18). Then buy a Glock (with night sights)for when the shotty won't work (out and about, etc). I have a G19 that I bought about 5 years after I got my CCW, to replace my WWII 1911 and Hi-Power that I had carried.

Now if you live in NYC (and/or anywhere southeast of the Catskills (East of Hancock or South of Saugerties), then I feel your pain. I would move to the real Upstate.

How in the hell did you get your owners permit AND your CCW in one year, let alone when you turned 18? Was it thirty years ago? I live around Ft. Drum, SE of where the river tunrs into Lake Ontario, and it's hard as rocks to get anything I want up here.

[jensenmk]

1984. Eagle Scout. 4-H instructor. NYS Hunter Safety Ass't Instructor. Judge a family friend.

Did something change? What is the difference between an owners permit and CCW? A NYS Pistol Permit is a NYS Pistol Permit. Unless of course you mean the difference in the type of NYS Permit, but why would you ask for a special one when you could get one that lets you do everything?

[HoboWithAK]

Well, i've been trying to put in for one, but from what I understand that first you have to have a permit for ownership. Apparently, that has no CCW rights with it. The people i've spoken with, including those at the local PD and Sherrif's office say I then have to put in for a CCW permit, which is even harder to get.

Basically, the pistol permit would be for home defense, target shooting and hunting, and you can't tag CCW onto your permit. Am I wrong or missing something here?

[jensenmk]

NYS Permits, except for the residence/business permit, that allow carry, allow carry as you see fit. There is no such thing as a ownership vs carry permit (except the residence/business version).

[jensenmk]

I guess I should qualify that statement with: thats how it was when I left NY, in late 2001. My NYS permit remains current, with the only change being that I moved the address from my parents' county where I grew up, to Jefferson county when I was stationed at Drum.

[gunhappy]

After 2 years of having a permit, I can say that I am familiar with the process...You can only get a CCW or premisis permit in NY (excepting the CITY). All handguns must be carried concealed or you could face menacing charges. Exceptions to this are if you are carrying as a condition of employment, ie a security guard, etc. When application for a permit is made, there is a box that must be filled in stating the purpose of wanting the permit. Generally speaking a good thing to put there is TARGET/HUNTING. In these parts it is frowned upon to say self defense in that spot. The county judge can reserve the right to restrict your permit to what you say in that box, so check w/anyone you know that has a permit from your county. Also a good place to check is WWW.PACKING.ORG . There is any info that you will need on application through laws governing your carry.
On a differnt note, I would love to know how an 18 YO got a permit when NYS requires an individual to be NO LESS THAN 21.

[jensenmk]

Where does it say you have to be 21 to possess? If it does say that now, when did it change?

[gunhappy]

Check this out http://www.packing.org/state/index.jsp/new+york

[jensenmk]

Oh, now I see. I almost forgot that each county is different, yeah right. Notice the disclaimer right up front about errors on the site. Read my first post in this thread.

Notice how they used one of the most strict (worst) counties as an example. Both my first and my most recent NYS permits are on green paper. I changed counties in 99/2000, so it wasn't that long ago.

The NYS website is useless.

[jensenmk]

Originally posted by gunhappy:
Check this out http://www.packing.org/state/index.jsp/new+york

After looking at the correct Article, I am wondering when this changed, not that it effected me? I can vaguely remember this change while I was still at Drum, probably around the time I moved my permit to Jefferson county.

http://assembly.state.ny.us/leg/?cl=82&a=72