Buckshot or Birdshot for defense???

[BruceNRALife]

I have heard some people claim that birdshot is appropriate for home defense due to claims that buckshot could penetrate interior walls and injure or kill family members. I would be afraid that birdshot might not stop an attacker unless you are right up on the bad guy. Does anybody have an opinion on birdshot for defense in and around a home?

[TC6969]

Re: Buckshot or Birdshot for defense???

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot3.htm

Heres what he had to say about it after the testing.

Unless you expect to be attacked by little birds, do not use birdshot. Use 00 Buck. It will do the job

[dfariswheel]

Re: Buckshot or Birdshot for defense???

Any effective defense ammunition of any sort, rifle, pistol, or shotgun will sail right through any interior wall.
For inside the house, #4 buckshot is less penetrating then 00, but again, it'll only be stopped by a brick or block exterior wall.

If you're using a rifle or pistol you don't wildly spray bullets around the house.
With a shotgun you have to do what police call "pellet accountability". In other words, make an effort to keep the shot on target.
Inside the average house the pattern from a defense shotgun is usually around 6 to 8 inches.

[paintballmagnet]

Re: Buckshot or Birdshot for defense???

Bruce, my thoughts are that BIRD shot is for tweetie birds, not for anything with fangs, claws, knives or guns. Theory abounds concerning bird shot and bloody rat holes at bedroom distance but having never shot birdshot at anything over 20 pounds, I can't say how effective it would be on anything larger. I have, however, fired many buckshot shells in sizes 4, 1, 0, 00, 000 at ranges from three feet to fifty yards and can tell you first hand, WITHIN your particular shotguns maximum pattern range, fairly large critters go down pretty fast. Unless Big Bird kicks in my door, I'm sticking with what I 100% khow works, buckshot.

[BruceNRALife]

Re: Buckshot or Birdshot for defense???

Thanks for the input everybody. I will stick with 00 buck, also.

[Tread Head]

Re: Buckshot or Birdshot for defense???

I keep #4 buck loaded in my Ready shotgun. After that its 00 buck.


Tread

[paintballmagnet]

Re: Buckshot or Birdshot for defense???

I keep two shotguns ready. My in close gun, I use with copper plated number 4 buck IC choke, outside where ranges might open a bit, I use copper plated 000 with a Kick's Industries Buckkicker tube. I get 80% inside a 20" circle at 50 yards with this combo. Deadly

[RT]

Re: Buckshot or Birdshot for defense???

I was always partial to #4 shot.

I once had a particularly good paycheck back when I was selling Cadillacs and decided to celebrate that month with the purchase of a new combat shotgun. I wanted a Benelli, but when I compared it to the Beretta, I thought they were about the same and the Beretta was lighter weight, and $150 less money, so I scrimped and got the Beretta 1201.

Big mistake. It is _about_ the same, except for one really screwball thing where you have to pull the trigger in order to release the bolt to get the round out that gets stuck between the bolt and the magazine on that action bar, or some screwball bugger of a thing that happens on those that is different from a Benelli. Well, on an occasion where I was leaving the house for a month, I was unloading all of the home defense guns for safety and storage and got to the Benelli, something on the thing goofed (it is really a bad modification of the Benelli system) and it popped a round off. Gouged a hole in the carpet and sprayed the room with that #4 shot, including some pellets that bounced back and hit me. It stung but did not break skin. I my ears rung, I had a mess to clean up, but it got handled. I even fixed the furniture and made it looks like a "pattern in the wood". Had it been BB shot, which ricochets harder, or buckshot, I think the situation would have been worse. Thing is, nobody wants to volunteer to stand in front of that rabbit shot either.

I hear stories about teenagers in the 1970s putting on safety goggles and having "shotgun wars" shooting at each other at long distance with shotguns using low powered birdshot (this was before paintball came out). Up close though, I don't think anybody is out to volunteer to get hit, but there are lack of lethality issues even at somewhat closer ranges. I just think that for home defense in apartments and parks, the choices are limited and the birdshot is the safer option. You would just figure on having some heavier loads handy for the reload in case the attackers are more determined than average.

So with a shotgun, you match the initial loading to the situation and the reload to the possible threats. Personally, I prefer the first round in the magazine of any home defense firearm to be a relatively weak load since it is the one round most likely to be the subject of an AD. Thus, even in a pistol the first round would be the weakest possible target load that I am certain would still function the action, with all followup ammo being either mixed fruit or straight hollowpoints depending on magazine capacity and circumstances.

[TC6969]

Re: Buckshot or Birdshot for defense???

I'll admit it, I play "What if?" in my mind like everyone else, but I prefer to do it from the top down.

What If, I'm confronted by a 6'5" 300lb career criminal who has been body building in prison everyday for 10 years and is hard as a rock all over?

And what if its winter and he's wearing 3 flannel shirts and a sweatshirt under a full thickness cowhide biker jacket?

And what if I only get one center mass shot and I have a dove load chambered up?

Its small comfort to know that at least you saved the coffee table when you have a 12 gauge shoved up your ass!

[BruceNRALife]

Re: Buckshot or Birdshot for defense???

I'll admit it, I play "What if?" in my mind like everyone else, but I prefer to do it from the top down.

What If, I'm confronted by a 6'5" 300lb career criminal who has been body building in prison everyday for 10 years and is hard as a rock all over?

And what if its winter and he's wearing 3 flannel shirts and a sweatshirt under a full thickness cowhide biker jacket?

And what if I only get one center mass shot and I have a dove load chambered up?

Its small comfort to know that at least you saved the coffee table when you have a 12 gauge shoved up your ass!

Hahaha! That was a good one! And true also.

[CAMPYBOB]

Re: Buckshot or Birdshot for defense???

00 buckshot.

.45 ACP.

[jefferson101]

Re: Buckshot or Birdshot for defense???

Completely apart from anything else, I figure that even a 3.5" magnum Turkey Load of #2 or #4 shot is less than 50% likely to kill someone.

It will probably mess them up pretty well though. Then, after the ambulance comes and hauls him off, he sues you.



The odds of getting that outcome are greatly reduced with 00 Buck.

[Sarge]

Re: Buckshot or Birdshot for defense???

I thought I had responded to this, but maby (?) it was put up on another board???
Are you guys giving any thought to the actual distance an engagement in your house would be?
Also are you thinking only of yourself as the defender or have you considered that it might be your wife or 13 yr old daughter doing the defending???
It is 35' from my bedroom door to my front door, half of which is hallway.
Wheter me or the above mentioned alternates for this distance the best "Shotgun" to use is a 20 ga double bbl with the bbls cut off to ½" Over legal minimum. In that 20 ga I would use #5, maby #4 field loads - some call it "low brass."
Given the example of the king kong size individual I would guarentee that he would NOT get down the hallway to the bedroom door, so he had to be shot twice (Maby), BFD!!! I also would not be worried about my neighbor getting shot up thru 3 or 4 walls.
If you aimed high center of mass he would get enuf in the face to blind him and enuf in the throat to kill him!
Whoever might be the home defender should take this shotgun out and practice with it so they can hit this target 100% of the time - AND a 20 ga will Not scare most women or kids to death when they shoot it.
Sarge

[paintballmagnet]

Re: Buckshot or Birdshot for defense???

A 20 ga double barrel might be Ok if you can guarantee no more than two perps and also guarantee not missing with either shot. I prefer hedging my bet with a seven or eight shot pump. Also how can anything that will not penetrate typical drywall construction be 100% certain to penetrate whatever the guy happens to be wearing plus muscle and/or fat layers and cause enough damage to put the guy down? I don't think there is a definitive answer, we all have to arm ourselves as we think is best.

[TC6969]

Re: Buckshot or Birdshot for defense???

All you psychics who somehow know exactly how a violent encounter is going to go down can simply arrange your schedule so as to not be there when it happens!

So you really don't need a gun at all!