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Benelli M4 shotgun. Is it all that?

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  • Harlock
    replied
    I have learned that imitation is the best form of flattery that said, most knockoff products don't have the same quality control. This isn't always the case take PTR-91 in many respects their product is better than HK. How about a replacement for this expensive shotgun. I understand the parts even interchange and the shotgun is under 225$ NIB. Zenith M312 uses the same recoil ejection as the Benelli. No gas system like the new Remington auto POS models out there. Even the 870 pump's quality is in the toilet so an off brand from China actually has better heat treating and steel frames instead of the blended metals (HAWK 981 - at 120$ is a superior pump shotgun)

    I have found there are gun snobs that think by paying more than you did it somehow makes them superior, I find that logic lacking. It is true that buyers need to be aware of what's out there but it is also true that sometimes better quality firearms don't have to cost the same as a "NAME BRAND" weapon.

    Just saying it's all in how you want to use it. I wouldn't have a benelli because it's too expensive and I wouldn't want to shoot it. That's just me.

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  • UNO
    replied
    I figure even though the thread is old, it is still pertinent. The initial question is not necessarily about the viability of the shotgun. The end user can decide that, based on their own criteria. The question was "is the m4 worth it?"

    Everything is relative. The benelli m4 is one if the few semi automatic shotguns built from the ground up to be a combat weapon. Most other shotguns are sporting/hunting guns that were brushed over and pressed into combat roles. As such, we see several things with the m4 that differ. One, it was subjected to very harsh testing. 25,000 rounds. The test mossberg keeps bragging about? They were the sole solicitor, and it was 3,000 rounds...to put that in perspective.

    Battlefield Las Vegas is a range in Nevada. They employ veterans and introduce the public to shooting military style and movie prop type weapons. The benelli m4 is their longest lived shotgun. It went from 2012 to 2018 without a parts breakage, minus a rear sight when someone dropped it on the concrete. The lowest estimate for round count given to me by the owner is 40,000 rounds. In 2018, it broke 1 of the pistons. A drop in fix. Their 870s and 500s last, typically, 6 weeks before they are broken beyond simple repair.

    reliability with the m4 using 3dram and heavier loads is very good. One of the few guns I've consistently taken out of the box and ran trouble free. Ive owned over half a dozen of them.

    slow motion video of the action shows very smooth function. Compared to the siaga, it's like a Lexus vs. A solid axle wagon.

    aftermarket support of the gun has come a long ways. We now have mounts that co witness an RMR or t2 with the factory irons (low 1/3). We now have very integrated wml systems that dont impede rapid takedown or reassembly and position the light well, and do not touch the barrel proper.

    it is my opinion that if you want the best, most rugged tube fed shotgun in SBS form, the Benelli m4 is it. If you want the same in 18.5" form, again, arguably the m4 is it. The beretta 1301T is the only place I would look for competition in the 18.5" barreled market, and it's a sporting gun adapted. The parts replacement and breakage schedule on the 1301at underscores this, as well as the inability to break down the gas system without spring compressor, etc. The gas plugs in the m4 are analogous, but they can be replaced easily as a sub assembly, while the beretta system is barrel integrated.

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  • Black Pete
    replied
    Re: Benelli M4 shotgun. Is it all that?

    Well all I can say is that over the years I've had very few people survive shotgun wounds. The surviving ones that come to memory were 410 bird shot to the groin, 12G with birdshot in legs, arms and shoulder, one holdup guy with 00 buck to the right leg....he lost the leg. Any center of mass shot, face/neck at close range even with bird shot were DOA. With the exception of the leg shot from the LEOs all others were DOA. Saw one guy hit by a rifles Slug in the chest at about 50 yards(DOA)....blew a good sized hole right through him.(mistaken for a deer by a deer hunter).
    Used to see a guy at the range shooting at targets with a 12G and slugs, always had a pretty good group(of course that was bench resting). Is it a good weapon for combat, I would guess not except for within 50 yards, but I certainly wouldn't wish to assault a position where they had one. Most likely a good weapon for home defense.

    A lot of what gunne said was true about stress & shooting....except having been in a room with gun fire I sure didn't lose my night vision and didn't even notice the gun blast until thinking about it afterwards. It seems understress you selectively ignore the sounds you don't want and hear the sounds you do want. I noticed that playing football in high school......I always heard the commands but never heard the crowds roar. It always seemed the same with gunfire. At night you pupil gets larger, it also does that during the fight or flight response. So I think it really compensates for the light flash from the muzzel very quickly.....maybe I'm all wrong but it never seemed to bother me too much.
    Last edited by Black Pete; March 13, 2011, 12:17.

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  • sling
    replied
    Re: Benelli M4 shotgun. Is it all that?

    Originally posted by ISC View Post
    why are you such a dick gunne? It overshadows anything else you might say that could add something to the discussion.

    You are a hairs width away from being banned. AGAIN.
    And a very thin hair at that.

    Leave a comment:


  • ISC
    replied
    Re: Benelli M4 shotgun. Is it all that?

    why are you such a dick gunne? It overshadows anything else you might say that could add something to the discussion.

    You are a hairs width away from being banned. AGAIN.

    Leave a comment:


  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Re: Benelli M4 shotgun. Is it all that?

    yeah, yeah, IF you can (somehow) arrange for the ranges, etc, to be ideally matched to the shotgun, it can do ok, but basically it's a badly limited thing, chosen because guys can't be bothered to learn to shoot a rifle and pistol truly well. NO longarm amounts to a crap for home defense, simply because you probably won't HAVE it when it's needed. You IMAGINE that you will have plenty of time to go get it, but that's not the way it happens. YOu will be LUCKY if you have the 1 second needed to recognize the threat, and make a concealed draw of the pistol.

    Ever TRY shooting thru much with a Brenneke? It doesn't even outpenetrate the M855 223, in most cases,a nd that's not saying very much. Brenneke's run about $1 a shot, so I KNOW that you don't fire the 5000 rds a year needed to be good enough with it. :-) YOu are just talkingcrap. MANY a riot barrel won'tRELIABLY put more than 2-3 pellets of 00 buck (standard 9 pellet load) into the 10" chest vitals at 25 yds, and they are hitting about like a .32 ACP pistol at that distance. WHOOPPEE, right? Overwhelming stopping power. Also, at a mere 20 yds, head sized holes appear in 00 patterns, with riot barrels, so guys who know enough to use COVER (unlike you) are going to be MISSED a lot at such distances.

    Under combat stress, you are NOT going to be judging range worth a crap, so you will be using slugs where you should be using buck, and vice versa. Without a flashhider, you lose your night vision the FIRST shot that you fire out of a shotgun, especially indoors. The blast is so horrendous that you will nearly drop the gun, too. So anyone who doesn't even mention the out and out NEED of a set of "Wolf's Ears" muffs is somebody who doesn't have a CLUE what he's talking about.

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Re: Benelli M4 shotgun. Is it all that?

    a 12 gauge pump was my first and only gun for many years and got quite comfortable shooting it for sport and hunting.

    the quick point shooting and the big holes it puts in everything make it quite comforting to carry for protection.

    of course limited ammo capacity and short range have always been it's "Achilles heel'


    now maybe a "belt fed' shotgun........................

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  • ISC
    replied
    Re: Benelli M4 shotgun. Is it all that?

    I just came back from Iraq and didn't see a single shotgun over there. I have thought that it would be cool to have a short barrel 12 ga mounted under an AR 15 like a M203...

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  • paintballmagnet
    replied
    Re: Benelli M4 shotgun. Is it all that?

    Perhaps the shotgun isn't best issued to frontline troops in modern warfare but for what's going on in Iraq I/E security work and house clearing they would seem to be perfect. They did work well in WW-1 for trench warfare IIRC and I heard mention they served well in Vietnam for jungle fighting as well. Depending on terrain, I can see a shotgun holding its own with any rifle, here where thickets are so heavy that even in winter being able to see fifty yards yards is rare, I think a shotgun would do well.

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  • BruceNRALife
    replied
    Re: Benelli M4 shotgun. Is it all that?

    ISC, Home defense is the only combat this old geezer needs to worry about being thrust upon my tired old azz!

    Leave a comment:


  • Southern Shark
    replied
    Re: Benelli M4 shotgun. Is it all that?

    I know a former Marine who claims to have fired a shotgun many times in Iraq, although he said that he was shooting rubber rounds at cars (the last warning before they opened up with the heavy guns). FWIW he claims to have trained on an M4 stateside, and was then promptly issued a Mossberg in country..... Not super happy about that.
    Last edited by Southern Shark; February 25, 2011, 04:16.

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  • ISC
    replied
    Re: Benelli M4 shotgun. Is it all that?

    The dynamics of modern warfare means that if you are engaging the enemy at shotgun ranges you are either in a very specialized mission or you're totally screwed.

    I've been an infantryman for 15 years and have never fired a military shotgun or even seen a single government issued shell.

    I think that a shotgun is among the best home defense weapons one can have, but unless one is on a special purpose room clearing mission it just isn't a good choice.

    I can clear a room with my M4 or MBR, but I can't engage a target at beyond 100m with any shotgun.

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  • BruceNRALife
    replied
    Re: Benelli M4 shotgun. Is it all that?

    Shotguns not suitable for combat?

    Remington 870 shotguns loaded with buckshot were used by the famed German GSG-9 Commandos when they stormed the hijacked Lufthansa Flight 181 on October 13, 1977, at Mogadishu Airport, Somalia, during Operation "Fire Magic".

    The GSG-9 killed three of the four hijackers, and rescued all the hostages. I am no German Commando, but if Buckshot works on terrorists at closer ranges, it would probably work on garden variety criminals/home invasion robbers at closer ranges.

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  • ISC
    replied
    Re: Benelli M4 shotgun. Is it all that?

    Originally posted by gunne View Post
    no shotgun is worth much of anything as a combat arm, dude. They are one and all lacking in a ... range, mag capacity, penetration, ease of reloading and carrying spare ammo. Their ammo is expensive, bulky, heavy, prone to damage and to contamination by oils and water. The list is very long of reasons to not bother with one... time and money wasted on shotguns and trainingwith them can't be spent on the rifle, the pistol and hand to hand, the latter 2 of which are many times more likely to be needed than the shotgun is.

    Actually, I mostly agree with this. A shotgun is really a specialty weapon, despite the claims of many that it can do anything. I hope that if I ever get into a shootout, my adversaries are armed with shotguns. Other than home defense and small game, I don't think they serve much of a purpose.

    I have a couple 12 gauges, but haven't shot them in years. My littlest son has a .410 that he thought was neat because of the recoil, but that's about it.

    I think that buying a $1500 shotgun would be the last thing that anyone should do unless they just HAVE to have something to trow money at.

    Leave a comment:


  • RT
    replied
    Re: Benelli M4 shotgun. Is it all that?

    Originally posted by pahapoika View Post
    they do look nice, but as RT mentioned you lose the extra round capacity and adjustable stock with the "civilian' version.
    Which is what makes it lame in my opinion. That fake decorative thing they put on the end of the magazine is such an insult. In fairness, i think the stock that comes on the neutered M4 super 90 can be modified to function the way it should, but it is not like getting something that can become small and store small, like a sidefolder which is what would be pretty nice on a Benelli.

    The regular stocks and the pistol grip stocks are pretty good on the M1s, I liked mine both ways but had a slight preference for the pistol grip models. I had to keep one of the Benellis in a California legal configuration for security work down there and it was still not half bad with the conventional stock and five shot mag. For some odd reason, the Beretta in a nearly identical configuration would recoil a hell of a lot worse, I mean bad, really bad. I got rid of it when I moved to Oregon and saw that exact same gun trading hands so many times at the local gun shows it was almost a joke. It is almost like there was a club of people who had that Beretta, the knowing rolling of the eyes when people talked about how it recoiled, that's where you would tell people who knew the gun vs not. It was bad, that bad. Oddly the Benelli with a near identical operating system would be not so bad at all.

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