Pistol vs SBR vs bullpup for CQB

[acem]

Which do you think is best for CQB: Pistol, SBR or bullpup?

I think it would be hard to beat a high capacity pistol with a mini optic.

Thx-Ace

PS: I almost left out shotguns!

[mgjohn]

Re: Pistol vs SBR vs bullpup for CQB

Pistols are nice, but when I know I will need a gun, give me something bigger. I have a Colt 16 with 10 inch barrel that I like for CQB. Have a mossburg bullpup 12g that is handy close in also. Had a High Standard 10B years ago that I foolishly let get away from me.

A lot of what you chose for CQB will depend on where most of the fighting is expected to be done.

If in a phone booth give me a pistol, if in a gym, give me something with more range.

[paintballmagnet]

Re: Pistol vs SBR vs bullpup for CQB

I've got a Beretta CX-4 Storm, 32" long, weighs just over five pounds with fuly loaded magazine that I like quite well. Mine's accurate enough to make head shots at 100 yards and so far has been 100% reliable. With an EoTech mounted its about as fast on multiple targets as anything I've fired, recoil is negligble, it can be converted for left and right hand shooters, its nowhere near as lound indoors as 9mm pistols.

[BISHOP]

Re: Pistol vs SBR vs bullpup for CQB

I don't do any competition shooting (3 gun) but I do have my Micro-Car (7.5" AR15 (in 223)) my Rem 870 with 12.5 barrel and my pistols. But when there are thoughts of problems I always grab the AR15.

I think more of hard hitting 30rd gun over a pistol or scatter gun.
The 12Ga is good with what I have (00buck) but a follow up shot is very slow compared to my AR, which would be 4-6 more shots


BISHOP

[gunne]

Re: Pistol vs SBR vs bullpup for CQB

The pistol, if it's loaded right and used well (that's two VERY big "ifs") is king to about 10ft or so, on fully exposed torsos, because it's faster to traverse to other targets than any longarm can be. In the realm of highly skilled shooters, it's quite feasible to use a pistol in each hand, to 10 ft, on torsos. When the enemy uses cover, the ranges have to be cut by a factor of 3, since the head is such a small target.

The sbr 223 does have a lot of power, if it's using sp ammo, but the blast/flash are horrendous. A 7.5" barrel, and 7.5" of silencer, tho, add up to a still-handy OAL. The shotgun is a pointless fantasy, altho it need not be 3/4x slower for repeat hits than those same hits with the AR. Maybe 25% slower with buck and a gas operated auto 12 ga, 50% slower with a pump gun. Oftentimes, the time to "traverse" to another attacker is longer than it takes to work the trombone action. It depends upon the range and the space between targets, really. I consider the 7.5" barrel to be too likely to cause baffle hits, when suppressed. The bullets are not adequately spin stabilized, up close to the muzzle. The 10.5" barrel is a bit "iffy" in this regard, too.

[Illini Sniper]

Re: Pistol vs SBR vs bullpup for CQB

A rifle is much more accurate and launches a bullet with about 2 or 3 times the speed of a pistol bullet. The thing to remember is that if you practice with whatever you plan to use for home defense or personal protection, you will increase your chances of success. Also if you layer your defense plans, you will increase your success rate. I would use a rifle first but back it up with a big bore pistol. I would use the pistol only if the rifle jammed or broke. I would also back up both firearms with a good sheath knife of some kind for melee fighting.

[RT]

Re: Pistol vs SBR vs bullpup for CQB

What sort of distances are you realistically looking at?

My main inclination on this would be a full size full power large capacity handgun. Optics, that's sort of iffy. My personal opinion is that they can actually restrict your field of view and get in your way more than provide any sort of benefit when compared to just doing some more realistic training and building up your iron sight and point shooting skills.

Five yard stuff, you are just doing either a flash sight picture or point shooting. Seven yards, kind of aiming. It is just not much of a disadvantage to lack the optic. I would definitely favor a flashlight on a rail and if that has a laser too, then that's fine.

Bullpup, only if it is an FN Ambi unit, as there are just too many circumstances where you need to switch shoulders. The P90 is definitely a winner, but in the stopping power department, it is hard to beat the .45 handgun or if you can afford it, I think they now have a SBR version of the Kriss Super V.

The hotod .45 CQB weapon I had for home defense for a while was the HK USC in .45, but I also had the USP, and after some range runs with the USC, found it could do nothing in the CQB environment that I could not do as good or better with the USP.

Now on one difference that matters, on stuff where you are going to be running an effective muffler of some sort. I wanted to SBR a Ruger 10/22 or similar format .22 (had been looking at the possibility of a Marlin Pappoose for the project) and have it with around a 12" to 14" barrel integrally silenced, which gets me to concept weapons,

The best concept weapon is going to be powerful high capacity, ambidextrous, silenced within reason, reliable and most likely lack optics of any kind. It will have a flashlight and both visible and IR lasers. Sights would be iron sights with tritium inserts, timed in to be dead on at 25 yards. Caliber choices limited, 10mm and .45 acp come to mind. Oh, I forgot .40, well, that was not a mistake. Run it in 10mm.

Stock can be foldable, adjustable or removable. Colt is coming out with a super compact version of their carbine which uses the pistol buffer system and a smaller folding stock which is complex, but gets really small when folded. Not that .223 is a good choice for that, but if IMI could get the Uzi to work in .45, then Colt could get the DEA style subguns to work in .45 and run those indegral cans on the front end, even if your functional barrel length is 4" inside of a 12"-14" "barrel".

The other thing you need to do with all of these options, and could even disqualify the 10mm for some people is to fire the calibers you are considering indoors out of a barrel length/type that you are anticipating using.

5.45 out of a true Krink muzzle device is loud, but liveable. .223 out of a shorty barrel, no effin way, come one, lets talk real world. It is eardrum rupture territory in your average bedroom. 9mm, tolerable, .40, OK, just not all that powerful and has negligible utility against determined attackers who wear armor. .45, loud, but you can live with it. Any pistol caliber out of a can, entirely acceptable, just that with so much sticking out front, you are going to be vulnerable to the martial artist type who can grab your muzzle/silencer and ram a knife in your gut or slit your throat. That's why the SWAT types have a tendency to prefer a full stock Mp5 for indoor work.

Dream gun no holds barred, no funds barred, check out the availability of surplus parted out FBI pattern 10mm MP5s in some of the subgun forums, parts kits in the $2000 range, then another $1500 or so for a competent build. The FBI frequently ran those guns as semiauto to regular field agents and even SWAT, with the full auto trigger packs held in reserve and not even installed unless authorized (although all guns went on paper as full auto capable).

Lacking that, any of the decent modern generation of high capacity service grade .45 automatics will get the job done just fine if you train train train....