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If you deny God and Christ under duress, will it be held against you?

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  • If you deny God and Christ under duress, will it be held against you?

    If some Islamos or whatever have got a hold of you... and they order you to declare that Jesus Christ was not the son of God and was not crucified, and that the claim of his crucifixion was a lie put out by Satan, and Christianity is of the devil, and that there is no God but Allah and Mohammed is his prophet... and while ordering you to say this, there is a guy behind the camera toying with a big butcher's knife in full view of you... so you say what they tell you to.. and then they release you, along with the video of your words. Do you think it would be held against you at the last judgement?
    Earth First - We'll stripmine the rest of the galaxy later!

  • #2
    I don't know if God would damn you for denying him under extreme duress. After all, Peter denied the Christ three times, under far less duress.

    Frankly, I would like to think that I'd tell them to blow off. If I have to die, I guess dying in defense of my faith would be a good way to go.

    419!

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    • #3
      I would not dare to try it. At any rate you would live with it forever, it's a hell of a lot easier to die.

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      • #4
        That's a good point that a lot of people forget, myself probably more than most, that if you keep true to the Lord no matter what they do to us here it is us who will be victorious in him.

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        • #5
          Thought about this after hearing about the reporters.

          Decided I'd just be worm-dirt if the choice came down.

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          • #6
            I know what I would like to say that I would do if I was ever faced with such a situation. I just hope that I am never faced with it.

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            • #7
              Considering that "Allah" is a made up "god" and Muhommad is a made up "prophet", I don't see the difference between agreeing to "covert" and, say, telling a Star Wars fan "may the force be with you" or something else equally fictional.

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              • #8
                psychologically thinking, i would not want them to win any battle including a mental one. besides, whose is to say that they wouldnt kill me anyways?

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by scud:
                  I would not dare to try it. At any rate you would live with it forever, it's a hell of a lot easier to die.
                  Easy enough to say. Many early Christians before the Fifth century faced torture and death for their conversion. During the Inquisitions, many people were made to give false confessions, under torture, in order to justify the same torture and subsequent execution or maiming and cofiscation of property.

                  I'm sure evryone has read the part about how if you die or suffer for Christ's sake you will be greatly rewarded. Jesus then goes on to compare those who do to the heroic persons of what we refer to as the Old Testament; the Martyrs and Prophets who came before.

                  Contrast that with the admonition of denying Christ: I think where he says everything can forgiven except sins against the Holy Spirit. In
                  the Catholic Church's teaching that is you are personally rejecting salvation and God in full knowledge and understanding that you are rejecting God and salvation. ( You believe in your heart and mind in God. You believe in your heart and mind that Jesus is the Christ. Yet for whatever reason or motivation with your heart and mind you turn away from God and embrace 'something else.')

                  If real and heartfelt rejection of God implies damnation and going to the wall for christ ( an act of heroic faith )implies great reward; I don't think God will damn us for not being heroes. God knows what secular spymasters know with respect to torture: Everyone breaks. It's just a matter of time. So the real question becomes, for someone who is not heroic or isn't just killed off, when your broken are you culpable? When you are not in your right mind are you culpable?

                  Besides all that, isn't duress a form of suffering? So if you are put under duress for christ's sake aren't who suffering for his sake?

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                  • #10
                    I just wanted to add that Peter denied Christ under duress; all three times. He was afraid of being implicated to Jesus and arrested. But after Jesus' self-ressurection, he still counted Peter as one of his apostles.

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                    • #11
                      I subscribe to the believe of once saved, always saved. God does not cast out his own for sinning.

                      He will forgive it if a christian denys Him, but it would disappoint Him to see it and I hope I would have the strength to avoid doing that.

                      I doubt they would let you live anyway.

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                      • #12
                        No God does not cast out His children. However His children can really affect thier relationship with Him by thier unrepented sin to the point that God turns them over to thier reprobate state, backsliden state. To stay in this state will remove you from the Book. ie.... name blotted out of the Book of Life. So God does not cast us out but we sure can kick our ownselves out through unrepented sin/s.

                        As for denying Christ. Well I think that this would really fall on each one of us individually as to what we are willing to bare. Gods Word says that in every difficulty He provides us with a way to endure. Now the time will come when denying Him will mean your forfeiting your eternal live with Him for one of a not so pleasant area down south.

                        I guess the real question is would you maintain your profession of Faith in Christ no matter what? Even to death? I would personally rather die physically than deny the Lord that has saved me.

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                        • #13
                          they overcame him by the word of their testimony
                          I think that is in revelation.
                          I also think it was by the blood too.

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