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  • My sincere apologies. Please read.

    First I want to state that I'm sincerely sorry for upsetting any Mormons on this boards. I did not intend to cause any discomfort of bad feelings amongst fellow believers. I just have some questions. That's all.
    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>This is really one of many issues I have with the Mormon faith. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    I should not have used those words.
    I should have said I have questions, not issues. For that I'm very sorry.

    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>
    Porter said:
    See Deuteronomy 4:2

    "Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you."

    By your logic you can tear out every page after this verse because it is adding to the words of the Lord.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
    No that's not my logic. If we did that it would go against what we both have our faith based on. Which is that Jesus die for our sins and rose again to give final proof that he is the Son of God. We just have different views on where he was during the 3 days he was dead.
    I am not set out to prove other religions wrong. Like I said. I have questions.
    It's like if I were to ask a Jehovah Witness about what happened to the number of people that were to be saved and why those numbers were raised to accommodate the number of members in the faith.
    Or a Roman Catholic why the words of the Pope can go over what the Bible says.
    Ah great. now I'm sure I've upset the JW's and Catholics. I will go ahead and say I'm sorry for upsetting you all.
    I don't want to make enemies here. I've been on this board for a while now and haven't had any problems.
    I just have questions and I want to better understand what the other faiths are and what they stand for. Is that a crime? Am I bashing the other religions for that?
    At what point do I just keep my mouth shut and continue to be ignorant of other faiths because I don't want to ask a question fear of being misunderstood by the way I phrased it or being called a bigot or hypocrite or a faith hater?
    Again, I will say I'm sorry for upsetting fellow members of this board who are Mormons.
    I did not intend to do that.

    Edit: Thank you Rev. Joel+ for pointing out to me that I am referring to the Roman Catholic Church on my comment about the Pope.
    Not to all the Catholic faith.
    ------------------
    "Now, I want you to remember that no sonuvabitch ever won a war by dying for his country.
    He won it by making the other poor dumb sonuvabitch die for his country."
    General George Patton
    June 16th, 1943
    Oujda, Algeria



    [This message has been edited by DIVARTY (edited 27 September 2002).]

  • #2
    The Joseph Smith Translation


    This revision of the KJV incorporates many changes which Smith, the founder of the Mormon church, made merely on the basis of what he thought the Scriptures ought to say. Although he had no knowledge of Hebrew or Greek, and though he did his revision without reference to any sources whatsoever, he maintained that the Scriptures had been corrupted, and that he was by divine revelation presenting an English version of the original text. Smith was killed in 1844, without having published the version. The manuscript remained in the possession of his widow until its publication in 1867. It became the authorized version of the Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (now called the Community of Christ). This church was founded by Smith's son when his rival, Brigham Young, took over the leadership of the original church organization in 1844. Young took his followers to Utah while Smith's son remained with his followers in Missouri. The "Reorganized" church in Missouri won a court case over the ownership of the version, and so the Utah church uses instead an edition of the KJV annotated with the variants of Smith's version. In the Reorganized church the version is commonly called "the inspired version," but in the Utah church it is called the "Joseph Smith Translation" (JST).

    The version, as might be expected, is exceedingly peculiar. Marion Simms, who calls the version "absurd and impossible," describes it very fully in his books, The Bible from the Beginning (New York: Macmillan, 1929. pp. 147-57) and The Bible in America (New York: Wilson-Erickson, 1936. pp. 235-38).
    http://www.bible-researcher.com/jst.html

    Comment


    • #3
      DIVARTY,
      The key is to remember your talking to real humans here.
      Be polite.
      Dont say anything you wouldnt say face to face with them.
      Its ok to disagree but be respectful and talk about the subject not the person.
      Know when to agree to disagree.
      If you have a question pose it as a question.
      For example to find out about Mormans it would be acceptable to ask for links to resources about it.
      Then if you have a specific question about something ask about it but be sure and ask a question not attack others beliefs.

      ------------------
      VERITAS VINCIT
      VERITAS VINCIT
      A CRUCE SALUS

      Comment


      • #4
        gconan,
        Thats interesting but if I remember right Porter has said numerous times that they use the standard 1611 kjv + the BOOK OF MORMON.
        Maybe if He sees this he will clarify it for sure.

        ------------------
        VERITAS VINCIT

        [This message has been edited by strmrdr (edited 28 September 2002).]
        VERITAS VINCIT
        A CRUCE SALUS

        Comment


        • #5
          I'll back Porter up on the usage of the King James version as the "official" Bible used by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.

          My wife is LDS. I accompany her to her meetings a lot of the time. This year the Sunday School class is studying the Old Testament. The KJV is the Bible used in study, classes and in common sermon.

          The Joseph Smith Translation is a useful addendum which clarifies many of the things that the Lord wanted his people to know. But it is NOT considered to be the officially used version of the Bible.

          Hope this helps clarify things! Have a great Sabbath tomorrow!

          Comment


          • #6
            <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by strmrdr:
            gconan,
            Thats interesting but if I remember right Porter has said numerous times that they use the standard 1611 kjv + the BOOK OF MORMON.
            Maybe if He sees this he will clarify it for sure.

            <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


            Thanks strmrdr! I had forgotten.

            But in all likley hood, they use the 1769 revision of the KJV. Atleast 99.9% of KJV`s in America are the 1769.
            http://www.bible-researcher.com/canon10.html


            However, the 1611 is still available.

            The Holy Bible, an Exact Reprint Page for Page of the Authorized Version Published in the Year MDCXI. Oxford: Oxford University Press, 1833. Reprinted by Thomas Nelson in 1993 as The Holy Bible, 1611 Edition.
            http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/IS...708499-4874245

            Comment


            • #7
              <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by gconan:

              Thanks strmrdr! I had forgotten.

              But in all likley hood, they use the 1769 revision of the KJV. Atleast 99.9% of KJV`s in America are the 1769.
              http://www.bible-researcher.com/canon10.html

              <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
              Interesting
              Im not a bible history scholar.
              I will have to check and see what version the ones I have are.
              They use the modern type font.
              According to what that site says they are both 1769 versions.
              One from 1945 one from the 1990s.
              You never know what your going to learn on AW.net.
              Thank You:}



              ------------------
              VERITAS VINCIT
              VERITAS VINCIT
              A CRUCE SALUS

              Comment


              • #8
                Welcome to AW.net oldgoofydude.
                God Bless


                ------------------
                VERITAS VINCIT
                VERITAS VINCIT
                A CRUCE SALUS

                Comment


                • #9
                  Praise God!
                  The 1611 is being made available online!
                  http://community-1.webtv.net/SegTx/Gen1/

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Divarty:

                    I can understand your desire to learn more about the LDS church and it's doctrine. There are many false and unsubstanciated ideas and theories floating around about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and it is easy to bear false witness if one does not know the truth. I encourage you to do two things: 1) Visit the church's official website at www.lds.org or at a sight especially designed for those with questions www.mormon.com . 2) The LDS church has over 60,000 full-time missionaries who have dedicated between 1 1/2 and 2 years of their lives to teaching other about the church. Get in touch with them at the closest LDS church and they will answer your questions.

                    With regard to the Joseph Smith translation to the bible the previous post didn't do it justice.

                    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>This revision of the KJV incorporates many changes which Smith, the founder of the Mormon church, made merely on the basis of what he thought the Scriptures ought to say. Although he had no knowledge of Hebrew or Greek, and though he did his revision without reference to any sources whatsoever...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                    Joseph Smith was a prophet of God and as such he was blessed with many of the same divine gifts that biblical prophets enjoyed, one of which was direct revelation from God the Father. It was by this power that the corrections were made. The corrections were not based "upon what he thought" but upon what he was directed to write. Even at that, the translations, although important, represent a very small portion of the text of the bible and are noted as footnotes at the bottom of the page. For instance, the following is one of the corrections:

                    Matt 1:16 "And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ."

                    Matt 1:16 JST "And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who as the prophets have written is called Christ."

                    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>The version, as might be expected, is exceedingly peculiar. Marion Simms, who calls the version "absurd and impossible,"<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                    Now, I don't know about you, but I don't think this is exceedingly peculiar, absurd or impossible. As with anything else, I encourage you to follow Christ's admonition and to paraphase: "...Judge them by their fruits." If you want to know about Joseph Smith...simply read the Book of Mormon or attend a Sunday church service. I believe this will provide you with a much better idea than posting messages on a website.

                    419!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Divarty,

                      You have many Mormon Patriots right in your back yard.We all get along,we have to.Just because we dont do things the same,you should not pre judge us or our value to the patriot movement.
                      If you want, I invite you to church with us one Sunday.That way you can see first hand that we dont have horns.

                      ------------------
                      A thousand shall fall at thy right side,and ten thousand at thy right hand;but it shall not come nigh thee.
                      Psalm 91

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I hope that no one see`s the information on Joseph Smiths revision of the KJV translation as an attack. I provided the information so that those who would not have access to this information could see it.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by strmrdr:
                          DIVARTY,
                          The key is to remember your talking to real humans here.
                          Be polite.
                          Dont say anything you wouldnt say face to face with them.
                          Its ok to disagree but be respectful and talk about the subject not the person.
                          Know when to agree to disagree.
                          If you have a question pose it as a question.
                          For example to find out about Mormans it would be acceptable to ask for links to resources about it.
                          Then if you have a specific question about something ask about it but be sure and ask a question not attack others beliefs.

                          <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
                          strmrdr,
                          I do know I'm talking to real humans here.
                          I do try to be polite and I would have said the same thing face to face. But at least if it was face to face I could have explained what I meant and rephrased my words immediately.
                          I don't know where in any of my post I was disrespectful to any individual.
                          I do know that mine and the Mormon faith do have differences.
                          I have found the links on the faith, but they didn't help, so I came here with it.
                          And finally, I never intended for my text to come off as an attack. But alas it did and I couldn't defend myself on it since it was archived.
                          I now feel I'm being attacked for this and I'm sure no one will care. That is why I'm not going to bring this up again. It has all be taken to defensively.

                          <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Alma the Younger:
                          Divarty:

                          I can understand your desire to learn more about the LDS church and it's doctrine. There are many false and unsubstanciated ideas and theories floating around about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and it is easy to bear false witness if one does not know the truth. I encourage you to do two things: 1) Visit the church's official website at www.lds.org or at a sight especially designed for those with questions www.mormon.com . 2) The LDS church has over 60,000 full-time missionaries who have dedicated between 1 1/2 and 2 years of their lives to teaching other about the church. Get in touch with them at the closest LDS church and they will answer your questions.

                          <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
                          Alma the Younger,
                          I appreciate your words to me on this subject.
                          But it's not that I have a desire to learn about the faith. I just have a few questions about what you all believe compared to what we who attend Calvary Chapel believe. That's all. I have been to those sites and they really don't offer much, in the end they just say to invite a Mormon over to go further on the faith. Being that I'm not planning to become a Mormon, I'd rather not.
                          That's why I have come here to ask, I know a lot of Mormons are here and I felt I could get an honest answer here. But I found that I was taken the wrong way and am now considered a faith hater and it has been taken defensively.
                          We do have different thoughts on several matters.

                          <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by swamp_fighter:
                          Divarty,

                          You have many Mormon Patriots right in your back yard.We all get along,we have to.Just because we dont do things the same,you should not pre judge us or our value to the patriot movement.
                          If you want, I invite you to church with us one Sunday.That way you can see first hand that we dont have horns.

                          <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
                          swamp_fighter,
                          I have said this before and I'll say it again. I do not hate the Mormons. I don't feel I need to judge anyone for their beliefs, nor am I faith hating anyone. I just have some questions on the faith. I do not in any way want to become a Mormon. I am very happy in my church and have no plans to leave it. Calvary Chapel has been a very great church and they teach exactly what my views are on the Bible.
                          I know first had that the Mormon brothers have a very close net malitia group here in my A.O. and that if the SHTF we WOULD be fighting side by side. I have no problem with that. But I do take offence in your accusation that I feel you all have horns.
                          All I have said is that we believe things differently.
                          It's not either of ours position to cast judgement on either party. But it shouldn't be a problem to ask questions. However, I feel that I will no longer ask any questions about the Mormon faith for fear of you all taking it the wrong way. I would have never started this if I knew it would be taken defensively.

                          ------------------
                          "Now, I want you to remember that no sonuvabitch ever won a war by dying for his country.
                          He won it by making the other poor dumb sonuvabitch die for his country."
                          General George Patton
                          June 16th, 1943
                          Oujda, Algeria

                          [This message has been edited by DIVARTY (edited 07 October 2002).]

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            No offense taken. I know exactly what you were saying about asking questions and wanting answers. I congratulate you on being honest enough to ask questions of members of the church. If you have no intention of joining the Church...that's your business. Believe me, it won't make any difference to me. I served a two year mission and was rejected so many times that a day without someone telling me, "Thanks...but no thanks." Doesn't seem right. I guess that's why I'm in sales:082 I'll still fight along side you or anyother beliver in freedom.

                            419!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Lighten up,my post was not ment as a flame at you in any way at all!

                              Maybe we should get together one weekend and do some target shooting,and than you can pick my brain all you want FTF.

                              I do not offend easy.And you could not offend me just by asking about our faith.I respect you seeking info about us,but not wanting to join.

                              ------------------
                              Psalm 18:29-48 "With Your help I can advance against a troop...It is God who arms me with strength...He trains my hands for battle...I pursued my enemies andovertook them; I did not turn back until they were destroyed. I crushed them so they could not rise...You armed me with strenght for battle...The Lord lives! Praise be to my Rock! Exalted be God my Savior! He is the God who avenges me, who subdues nations under me, who saves me from my enemies."

                              Comment

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