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  • Future of U.S.A. (Biblically)

    I've been pondering about this for some time and wondered what you all might think ...

    For the end times to unfold as we understand them seems unlikely as long as the U.S. is in the status of superpower. We just wouldn't go for it anytime in the forseeable future. (I'm speaking of one world govt, ecumenical religion, destroying of nations, etc.)

    So my hypothesis is that the U.S. must either be destroyed, or more likely, severely weakened beforehand. That event/process could even be what greases the skids for the antichrist.

    Now there are no indications in scripture of the existence of the U.S. but that proves nothing. Some believe Russia will launch a major attack on Israel sometime in this period but that's hard to picture if there is a U.S. superpower that would surely intervene.

    So are we on an inevitable collision course with *something* in the near future that will reduce the U.S. to near insignifance?

    (Please don't write a tome in your answers )


    ------------------
    To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose ... a time to kill, and a time to heal ... a time of war and a time of peace. (Ecclesiastes 3)

  • #2
    I've wondered the same thing myself. I have a couple theories but nothing concrete as of yet. But if the sin & calamity episodes of Israel are indicative of what happens to nations that sin.......then the US is in big trouble.

    Just my heretical thoughts,
    Efraim

    ------------------
    "I want to be oncommon"
    -Pip, Great Expectations.

    "For there shall be a day, that the watchmen upon the hills of Ephraim shall cry, Arise ye, and let us go up to Zion unto YHWH our God." Jeremiah 31:6

    Comment


    • #3
      Although, history has shown that all 'superpowers' decline - mainly from within rather than from without ! The alaternative, a perpetual, wonderful superstate, would be nothing less than utopia. And what is utopia ? A 'no place'.

      From the Greek;

      "u" - no, none, a negation
      "topia" - place

      Perhaps this rise and fall of nations is Gods way of proving us to Him !

      Comment


      • #4
        the lion will rise up with the wings of an eagle but they will be torn away, the lion is england the eagle is us. the only other mention is when the jews leave for Petrat(sp) they will make their escape on the wings of eagles
        lead if I can, follow if I have too, but always going my on way

        Comment


        • #5
          If you miss the church being caught up then this is your future. IMHO KB out!

          Revelation 8:6 And the seven angels which had the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound.
          7 The first angel sounded, and there followed hail and fire mingled with blood, and they were cast upon the earth: and the third part of trees was burnt up, and all green grass was burnt up.


          Comment


          • #6
            You who have eyes can see - the US IS Babylon, Soddom and Gomorrah combined! Look around you! The churches are dead, or dieing. The Christian faith and many of the American Jews are flocking to GAIA and the UN!

            We have no national language and NO longer have a national identity! Legals are invading us like grasshoppers and Illegals are invading us like locusts! Queers are thicker than fire ants in Texas and most of our new generation are freaks!

            Clergy of all religions are so greedy they won't say squat about anything that may threaten their "careers" as professional collection plate counters. Our politicians are all "born again" Christians in their election campaigns - but after they're elected they're Pro-Choice in their votes!

            Don't expect lightning bolts to appear in the sky to destroy this abomination. God works through and with people. We are destroying ourselves as a great nation - just like Babylon, Assyria, Greece and Rome did before us!

            Take heart Christians, the Rapture Bus is on it's way! (just ask your preacher) Max out your credit cards - you won't have to pay the bills! There is NO reason to stand up to the modern day equivalent Caesar because you're gonna be raptured away real soon!

            Thank God our founders were born before that seventeen year old kid in England came up with the rapture theory in the late 1800's!

            People are COMPLACENT because their clergy are COMPLACENT! And, because of this, America is DEAD as a nation...

            Comment


            • #7
              Pistol Pete,

              Here, here, well said!

              (The Rapture Myth was started by a 17 yr. old girl, who was in a mental ward in Scotland. She had a dream of people all at once going up to Heaven. It was Schofield who picked it up and ran with the lie.)


              Efraim

              ------------------
              "I want to be oncommon"
              -Pip, Great Expectations.

              "For there shall be a day, that the watchmen upon the hills of Ephraim shall cry, Arise ye, and let us go up to Zion unto YHWH our God." Jeremiah 31:6

              [This message has been edited by Efraim (edited 04 September 2002).]

              Comment


              • #8
                Please tell me who are these people?

                Revelation 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
                10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.
                11 And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God,
                12 Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen.
                13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
                14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

                15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.
                16 They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat.
                17 For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.

                I to believe we will see the tribulation just as the Bible says. I also believe the trib is 3 1/2 years and after that is 3 1/2 years of wrath. The Bible only promises to save you from WRATH. IMHO The Church is removed between the 6th and 7th Seal and the 1st Trumpet is the beginning of wrath where Babylon falls. I guess we will know soon.

                Don't be so arrogant and headstrong. You might be wrong. I might be wrong, but I will be at the wedding feast. KB out!


                Comment


                • #9
                  KB,

                  They are the ones who made it through 3 1/2 year Tribulation aka the Time of Jacob's Trouble. After 50 % of the population is killed and the world is plunged into 3 months of utter darkness.
                  After the meteors have hit the earth and the demons from below have been unleashed on all those who were not sealed with the mark of
                  G-d on their forehead.

                  Seems contradictory to the Left Behind Series and what is interpreted as Modern Christian Eschatology.

                  The picture you posted was of a nuclear mushroom cloud. To me that is Man's doing, the only Wrath we are spared from is G-d's Wrath. The Natural and Man made cataclysms we get to witness. Oh, yeah and the Giants too.

                  For more information check out: http://www.lionlamb.net:8080/ramgen/...ewilderness.rm

                  Efraim

                  ------------------
                  "I want to be oncommon"
                  -Pip, Great Expectations.

                  "For there shall be a day, that the watchmen upon the hills of Ephraim shall cry, Arise ye, and let us go up to Zion unto YHWH our God." Jeremiah 31:6

                  [This message has been edited by Efraim (edited 04 September 2002).]

                  [This message has been edited by Efraim (edited 04 September 2002).]

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    In Reply To The First Post:

                    Well, that is all told in the Bible but the underlying thing that this doesn't say is that the Church(those having accepted Christ as their personal savior and living for him), will be raptured out before the Anti Christ, one world gov't ever arrives on the scene to start all this. There is nothing standing in the way of Christ returning at anytime. Past that, the world will be own it's own to deal with the 7 years of tribulation. When you get time, we will sit down and go through the Bible. In the meantime, Christ's return may be closer than you think. A lot of this stuff points to his imminent return, and imminent means close.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Heres one interesting veiw of what might happen.


                      REVELATION 6, CONTINUED

                      As I have told you before, the only reason I teach is to help people better understand and enjoy their Bible. We have never attempted or intended to build a group or organization. We just like to teach the Word, and we have people taking it into their churches and Sunday schools and taking advantage of it.

                      Last lesson we were discussing the aspect of the red horse in Revelation Chapter 6. I like to tie it in with Ezekiel 38 be it right or wrong. I'm very comfortable putting this great invasion of Israel in the early stages of the Tribulation. Remember, after the Anti-christ signs that peace treaty of seven years with the Nation of Israel, she will suddenly drop her guard, thinking her borders are guaranteed with this treaty. So when you come to the language in Ezekiel 38, I think it is so appropriate that under those circumstances, with an outside power now guaranteeing their sovereignty and their safety, that it becomes what Ezekiel calls a land of unwalled villages.

                      When Ezekiel was writing, the walls of the city were the first line of defense. When you speak of a land of unwalled villages what does it tell you? Here is a land with no defense. They have been guaranteed safety by some outside political and military force, but for the nation itself, she is there with no real visible defense. This Northern confederation of nations, that we think will be headed up by Russia immediately takes advantage of this fact. Today, hardly anyone dares to attack the Nation of Israel because they know they will have a fight on their hands if they do. More than likely they'll get whipped. But here they now realize that Israel is complacent. Israel has finally gotten this almost Messiah-like atmosphere, that they no longer have to fear their enemies.

                      When we finally get into the Gospels, we will study about Zacharias, the father of John the Baptist, who suddenly had his speech given back to him. I always tell people to read what he had to say in Luke 1:67-71 and to read it carefully.

                      Luke 1:67-71

                      "And his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Ghost, and prophesied, saying, `Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people (Israel), And hath raised up an horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant David; As he spake by the mouth of his holy prophets, which have been since the world began: That we should be saved from our enemies, and from the hand of all that hate us;"

                      This is exactly what Israel is looking for today. That they could be safe from their enemies. It's not a spiritual thing. It's physical. And they will swallow what the Anti-christ will promise. Now picking up where we left off in the Book of Ezekiel. Chapter 38 and verse 9. God speaking through the prophet to the Northern Confederation, because it will involve more than just the Russians.

                      Ezekiel 38:9

                      "Thou shalt ascend and come like a storm, thou shalt be like a cloud to cover the land (not necessarily air power, but massive invasion armies.), thou, and all thy bands, and many people with thee." It will be a consortium of all these nations listed in verse 5 and 6.

                      Ezekiel 38:10

                      "Thus saith the Lord GOD; `It shall also come to pass, that at the same time shall things come into thy mind, and thou shalt think an evil thought:'"

                      Ezekiel 38:11,12a

                      "And thou shalt say, `I will go up to the land of unwalled villages (Israel is now sitting there relatively safe and secure. Now's the time for a surprise attack.); I will go to them that are at rest, that dwell safely, all of them dwelling without walls, and having neither bars nor gates,'" Then to verse 12: "To take a spoil, and to take a prey; to turn thine hand upon the desolate places that are now inhabited,..."

                      What a perfect picture that is of Israel? It had been a no-man's land for years, and now since 1948, it has blossomed into a land of production. They are building highways; they're building apartments. It's almost like being in America. Their traffic patterns are much the same as any major city here. I had a gentlemen in my class when we were still in Iowa who's gone to be with the Lord now. He was stationed with an American group in Palestine during World War II. I can still remember his explaining the conditions. He said, "Why in the world would anyone want that country? I just couldn't understand. There's nothing there." Well that's not the case today. It's a vibrant country. It's producing. And they're just constantly coming up in production of agriculture, technology and medical. The Nation of Israel is at the forefront of all these things.

                      Ezekiel 38:12b

                      "...and upon the people that are gathered out of the nations (that's where the Jews have come from remember. Every nation on the globe.), which have gotten cattle and goods, that dwell in the midst of the land."

                      Ezekiel 38:13a

                      "Sheba, and Dedan, and the merchants of Tarshish, with all the young lions thereof, shall say unto thee, `Art thou come to take a spoil?...'"

                      Tarshish, I think, either refers to Spain or Great Britain, and I would probably say Great Britain. Some of the other nations involved there in the NATO alliance, will be under the rule or control of the Anti-christ at this time. And all they're going to be able to say is, "What do you think you're doing?" Because this has caught them so by surprise, they won't have time to retaliate, militarily. And so all that they do I suppose, is tell the media at a press conference, "Well, all we can say is, `What do they think they're doing' and there's nothing we can do about it." Read on:

                      Ezekiel 38:13b

                      "...hast thou gathered thy company to take a prey (are you invading)? to carry away silver and gold, to take away cattle and goods,..."

                      In other words, to take a great spoil? That's about all the Western European nations are going to be able to do. But remember that God's going to intervene in short order.

                      Ezekiel 38:14,15a

                      "Therefore (God says to the prophet), son of man, prophesy and say unto Gog, `Thus saith the Lord GOD; In that day (when they invade Israel) when my people of Israel dwelleth safely, shalt thou not know it? And thou shalt come from thy place out of the north parts,...'" And that means everything from Lebanon, all the way, I think, to Moscow.

                      Ezekiel 38:16

                      "And thou shalt come up against my people of Israel, as a cloud to cover the land; it shall be in the latter days (that's the second time the word "latter" has been used. And that is why I have to feel that it will be in the Tribulation), and I will bring thee against my land, that the heathen (or the Gentiles) may know me, when I shall be sanctified in thee, O Gog,..."

                      In other words, when the rest of the world will see what a Sovereign God can do to a modern military force.

                      Ezekiel 38:18

                      "And it shall come to pass at the same time when Gog shall come against the land of Israel, saith the Lord GOD, that my fury shall come up in my face."

                      You need to remember that Russia has been anti-God for the past 70 years. And God hasn't forgotten. God is always just. And when He pours out His vengeance, He has a reason. I think that Russia still is going to have to answer for all the millions that the Communists put to death, and for their ill-treatment of the Jew. God says, "My fury is coming up before me."

                      Ezekiel 38:19

                      "For in my jealousy and in the fire of my wrath have I spoken, `Surely in that day there shall be a great shaking in the land of Israel;'"

                      As a result of this invasion. Now verse 21, and I want you to watch the language very carefully. God says:

                      Ezekiel 38:21a

                      "And I will call for a sword against him (that is, against these invaders) throughout all my mountains,..."

                      A lot of people don't realize that Israel is mountainous. In fact, I was reading an article just the other day, of someone who was speaking to one of our head government people (I think in the State Department). He didn't know that Israel was a mountainous country! I know that our younger generation hasn't been taught geography like I was. But there are people who are, seemingly, in places of high authority and they don't even know simple geography. But yes, Israel is mountainous. The very center of the country is just a string of mountains and valleys. Here is the very series of words that I tie with Revelation Chapter 6. And this is my reason for bringing it. I go by that basic rule of Bible study: Always go to the place of first mention. In other words, when something is mentioned in the Old Testament and then again in the New, see if they tie together. Now look at the language:

                      Ezekiel 38:21b

                      "...every man's sword shall be against his brother."

                      Do you see that? Now to those verses that we read in Revelation, Chapter 6, and I want you to see the comparison. Of course, I don't get dogmatic. If anyone says, "I can't see this," that's fine. This is the way I see it and I wouldn't teach it if I wasn't comfortable with it. Now back here now in Revelation:

                      Revelation 6:4a

                      "And there went out another horse that was red: and power was given to him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth, and that they (that is, the combatants) should kill (who?) one another:..."

                      Not the enemy but each other! That's what's so unique about this great invasion of Israel. Go back to Ezekiel and compare the words. The Sovereign God is going to fight this battle here on the hills of Israel. And of course it happened before. Do you remember Samaria had been encircled and was under siege, and they were starving to death. Then the Lord gave them a prophecy that by tomorrow night at this time, they would have more food than they would know what to do with. And you know the Syrian army was put into a route because in their confusion, they were killing each other. So it's happened before. Now look what Ezekiel then says again in comparison to the red horse statement in Revelation 6, that every man's sword should be against his brother. In other words, they're going to be annihilating themselves. God, Himself, of course, is going to come in with His own power.

                      Ezekiel 38:22,23

                      "And I will plead against him with pestilence and with blood; and I will rain upon him, and upon his bands, and upon the many people that are with him, an overflowing rain, and great hailstones, fire, and brimstone. (which of course is the same language of Sodom and Gomorrah, you'll remember) Thus will I magnify myself, and sanctify myself; and I will be known in the eyes of many nations, and they shall know that I am the LORD."

                      In other words, that Russian army or that Northern Confederation army will be defeated by not only its own confusion, but by a tremendous power of God. And it's going to be utterly destroyed there on the hills and mountains of Israel. Now we have to go into Chapter 39 because these two chapters tie together:

                      Ezekiel 39:1

                      "Therefore, thou son of man, prophesy against Gog, and say, `Thus saith the Lord GOD; `Behold, I am against thee,...'"

                      It would be awful to have God simply tell America for example, "I'm against you." I'm afraid the day is coming. But so far it hasn't happened. Now then, verse 2. He says to this invading force:

                      Ezekiel 39:2

                      "And I will turn thee back (God will. And remember that He brought them down. And this is the way God deals with nations when He judges them. He brought them into the Nation of Israel. He destroyed them there. And now He says, "I'll turn thee back"), and leave but the sixth part of thee, and will cause thee to come up from the north parts, and will bring thee upon the mountains of Israel:"

                      Ezekiel 39:3,4

                      "And I will smite thy bow out of the left hand, and will cause thine arrows to fall out of they right hand. Thou shalt fall upon the mountains of Israel, thou, and all thy bands, and the people that is with thee: I will give thee unto the ravenous birds of every sort, and to the beasts of the field to be devoured."

                      Now some people believe that this is Armageddon and I just can't agree with that. This is a separate war. A separate battle within the seven-year time frame. But it is not Armageddon.

                      Ezekiel 39:5

                      "Thou shalt fall upon the open field: for I have spoken it, saith the Lord GOD (and then look at verse 6. Underline it if you haven't before). And (God says) I will send a fire on Magog, and among them that dwell carelessly in the isles:..."

                      In other words, the homeland of Russia as well as the homeland of all these nations that have consorted against the Nation of Israel. The language is different than it is with the destruction of the army and Israel itself. Their (Israel's) God is going to do it by sending pestilence and hail and brimstone. That's God. But in Chapter 39 verse 6, I think God is using an outside force to destroy the Russian homeland. I'll comment on verse 6 in more detail, but first let's do verses 7-9 and pay particular attention to verse 9:

                      Ezekiel 39:7-9

                      "So will I make my holy name known in the midst of my people Israel; and I will not let them pollute my holy name any more: and the heathen (or Gentile) shall know that I am the LORD, the Holy One in Israel. Behold, it is come, and it is done, saith the Lord GOD; this is the day whereof I have spoken. And they that dwell in the cities of Israel shall go forth, and shall set on fire and burn the weapons, both the shields and the bucklers, the bows and the arrows, and the hand staves, and the spears (remember Ezekiel is writing the language of his day. We would say today the tanks, armored personnel carriers and so forth), and they shall burn them with fire seven years:"

                      People will say, "This can't be the Tribulation because there want be enough time for it." But if you will remember in Scripture a part of a year was counted a whole year. A good example was when a King would serve Israel for 10 years and 1 month, it would say he served for 11 years. So using that rule of thumb, an invasion of the Nation of Israel within the first 11 months for instance, after the seven-year treaty is signed, will still make this prophecy come true. I might also point out that back in the 1960's a Dutch scientist had perfected some sort of a process where he came up with a tank that was made with wood product that would actually repel shells and so forth. And the Russians bought a large quantity of them because they were so much more economical. Then after the war in 1967 in Israel, the Israelites captured some of these tanks and discovered that they burned like cardboard. Whether that is still the case, I don't know. But if it is, then you see again the Scripture is so accurate. The Jewish people will use this equipment as firewood if this is the case.

                      Now I want to finish commenting on verse 6 as I had promised. I'm going to speculate, and I want to make sure that people understand that this is only speculation. I can't prove it through Scripture, but I can certainly whet your thinking. And just consider the possibilities. Logically. Now I know that God doesn't have to work in the terms of logic. I know that. But many times He does. Logically then, I've put it before my classes over the years, and I've never had anyone ridicule the concept at all. Logically, if you were sitting in a place of authority, whether it's in the Kremlin or some other place in this Northern Confederation, and you were getting ready to invade the little Nation of Israel, I think that you would realize there's only one nation on earth that might oppose you. And who would that be? America. We are the only friend that Israel has in the world. And I think that the Russian leaders would understand that if they invaded Israel, America would probably come to her defense.

                      Now I mentioned in my last program, and Time magazine just stated it again a couple of weeks ago, that every missile that has ever been pointed at America before, is still sitting there. Still pointing at the American target. Speculate, project, that's all I can do. If you were the commanders, what would you do? I know what I would do. I would say, "Let's unload everything that we have on North America. They're the only possible enemy that we have." And that's what I think will happen. I think the Russians will unload everything that they have and will utterly knock the Western Hemisphere out of the rest of prophecy. Because there's nothing for us in prophecy. Then, when it says that God will send a fire on the Russian homeland, we know that we have submarines all over the oceans of the world, loaded with ballistic missiles on board. So after we have suffered that initial attack, I think our military will still have enough left to give the command to unload all our submarines on the Russian homeland, which will destroy it.

                      I said that this is all speculation and I don't say it to cause fear or anything like that, because you want to remember that in the Tribulation, events are going to start taking place that are so beyond human understanding. And that's why I think it's so logical to teach it. That when America retaliates and knocks out the whole Russian homeland, then you see between those two annihilations, North America out of the picture for the most part. And the Russian homeland is also out of the picture. Now I want you to come back to Revelation once more. And you can stop again at Matthew 24, because I told you that Matthew 24 and Revelation 6 are direct parallels. So you might as well stop first at Matthew 24 verse 7. And remember, I stopped in the middle of verse 7 with regard to the red horse. Alright, let's go to the last part of verse 7. And this will tie us to the third horse of Revelation 6:

                      Matthew 24:7b

                      "...and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places." Now flip back to Revelation Chapter 6 verse 5:

                      Revelation 6:5,6a

                      "And when he had opened the third seal, I heard the third beast (or creature) say, `Come and see.' And I beheld, and lo a black horse; and he that sat on him had a pair of balances in his hand. And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts (or creatures) say, `A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny;...'"

                      What does that black horse indicate if you're going to have to ration the food supply? Famine. Alright, come back to my premise. Take, for example, the great production areas of the North American Continent; whether it's the great grain belt to the north, or the citrus growths in other areas such as California, that have vast food production. If you knock out the great food production area of Russia (the Ukraine), what does that do to the world's food supply? It almost annihilates it. So what will the rest of the world suddenly find itself in? A famine.

                      The language in this verse boils down to the average worker (a field worker for example) having to work a full day, sun-up to sun-down, just to earn enough money to buy bread for the next day. It's going to be runaway inflation caused by a shortage of goods. You're going to have a tremendous decrease in the production of food stuffs. And whenever you have famine and the amount of death as we've seen in Somalia and so forth, what accompanies it? Disease. It just goes hand in glove. Now, lest you think that I'm stretching the point, come down to the fourth horse in verse 7, because these all tie together now. The black horse spoke of famine. What comes as a result of the famine?

                      Revelation 6:7,8

                      "And when he had opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth beast (or creature) say, `Come and see.' And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth."

                      The fourth horse is the pale one. As a result of the demise of two great power structures, he now sees this pale horse and on him was Death; and Hell followed with him. And power was given over them to kill with the sword. And what have you, what portion of the world? One fourth. Whether it's one fourth of the geographical area or one fourth of the population, either one. But this is the Tribulation. This is just the beginning.

                      Go back to Matthew 24 again. I guess you could just put a mark in it because we will be flipping back and forth. In Matthew 24, after these four horsemen have made their appearance (remember these are merely symbolisms. This isn't really someone riding on a horse and announcing that the world is going to have famine. They are symbolic of these events that are going to come on the planet) Jesus goes on to say in verse 8 that there would be famine and earthquakes and pestilence in divers places.

                      Matthew 24:8

                      "All these are the beginning of sorrows."

                      "Travail" is a better word. The King James uses "sorrow." Your newer translations may have the word "Travail" because Jesus is speaking in terms of a delivery. When we were back in Chapter 5 of Revelation, I spoke of a scroll, which was the paying off of a mortgage. It was also a delivery of the earth from the curse that was instituted back in the garden. This is what Jesus is referring to; all these events that are going to come on the planet, beginning with these horsemen of Revelation. This is just a beginning. This is like the mother who is about to deliver. Her birth pains are relatively mild and far apart. That's what we have here. As great as this is going to be, it is mild compared to what it is going to be at the end. And so he says, "These things are just the beginning of Travail." This is the beginning of the delivery process. Look at one verse in the Book of Jeremiah Chapter 30:

                      Jeremiah 30:7

                      "Alas! for that day is great (that is, this Tribulation), so that none is like it: it is even the time of (who's trouble?) Jacob's trouble (the Nation of Israel); but he shall be saved out of it."

                      So these things will have their vortex upon the Nation of Israel.

                      Les Feldick

                      http://www.havefaith.org/new_page_11d.htm


                      Comment


                      • #12
                        By all accounts, there is a huge revival developing in the US. When the rapture comes, what will happen to our infrastructure? I don't think the US will be much of a player at that point.

                        Check out Chuck Missler's web site for some interesting biblical insights:
                        http://www.khouse.org/

                        ------------------
                        "Fortus fortuna uvat"

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I agree Ms.Peel,the false Armageddon theory still intrigues me,the world will go into world war,the rapture will happen,the world will think Armageddon is taking place, the AC will fake the second coming,the strong delusion.
                          There really isn`t anyway of knowing Gods plan for the US.
                          As we know the important thing is to be ready.
                          God Bless.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Another good article.


                            America the Beautiful?

                            The United States in Bible Prophecy

                            by Dr. David R. Reagan

                            Where is the United States in Bible prophecy? It is a ques­tion I am asked wherever I go. It is only natural that we should wonder. Since the United States is not mentioned specifically by name in Bible prophecy, people have resort­ed to their ima­ginations to find our nation in the Scriptures.

                            A “tall and smooth people”?
                            Some have pointed to Isaiah 18 which speaks of a peo­ple “tall and smooth” who are “feared far and wide.” The passage further states that this is a “powerful nation whose land the rivers divide.” The chapter ends by stating that the people of this nation will bring “a gift of homage” to the Lord when He returns to reign from Mt. Zion.

                            Because these verses speak of a powerful nation whose land is divided by a great river, some have jumped to the conclusion that the nation is the United States since it is divided by the Mississippi River.

                            But the open­ing verses of this chapter indicate it is speak­ing of “Cush,” the ancient name of Ethiopia. At the time Isaiah wrote this passage, Ethiopia was a part of the Egyp­tian empire and the river referred to is undoubtedly the Nile.

                            A “village” of Tarshish?
                            Probably one of the most popular passages where peo­ple claim to have found the U.S. is in Ezekiel 38 where the pro­phet describes an invasion of Israel that will be launched in the end times by a nation “from the remote parts of the north.” The descriptive verses about the northern power make it clear that this nation is Russia. What is not so clear is where the U.S. fits into this invasion.

                            Those who find us in the passage point to Ezekiel 38:13 which says that “the merchants of Tarshish and all its villag­es” (or “young lions” depending on translation) will speak out against the invasion. The argument is that Tarshish is Britain and the “villages” or “young lions” are the English speaking nations like the U.S. and Australia that were foun­ded by British immigrants.

                            To say the least, this is a highly imaginative interpreta­tion. Its validity is seriously questioned by the fact that no one knows for certain the true identity of “Tarshish.” Fur­ther­more, recent archaeological develop­ments indicate that Tarshish was most likely Spain, not Brit­ain.

                            A “great eagle”?
                            Another favorite passage for applied imagination is Rev­ela­tion 12:13-17. These verses state that in the middle of the Tribulation God will provide a means of escape for the Jew­ish remnant in Israel. They will be carried into the wil­der­ness to a hiding place on the “wings of a great eagle.”

                            Some people have seized on this imagery to teach that the U.S., whose national symbol is the eagle, will supply the end time air lift that will save the Jewish remnant.

                            But the Bible is its own best interpreter. And when you look up the phrase, “wings of an eagle,” you will find that it is the same one that God used in Exodus 19:4 to describe how He brought the Israelites out of Egypt. God is the ea­gle, not the United States (see Deuteronomy 32:11).

                            “Babylon the great?”
                            This brings us to the final and most widely used pas­sage for identifying the U.S. in Bible prophecy. It is Revela­tion 18 where the destruction of “Babylon the great” is de­scribed.

                            There is no doubt that the United States shares many simi­larities with the corrupt commercial empire described in this chapter. But the U.S. is not a fulfillment of Revelation 18. That chapter is describing the last Gentile world empire that will dominate the earth at the time of the Lord’s Sec­ond Coming. It is the empire of the Antichrist.

                            A Conclusion
                            So, where is the United States in Bible prophecy? The an­swer is that we are not mentioned directly and specifical­ly. We are cov­ered by general prophecies that relate to all nations, but beyond that, our end time destiny must be a matter of spec­ulation.

                            General prophecies that apply to the U.S. include those that say all nations will be judged (Isaiah 34:2-3) and all na­tions will cease to exist except the nation of Israel (Jeremiah 30:11 and 46:28).

                            A Speculation
                            I personally believe that the reason the U.S. is not men­tioned in end time prophecy is because we will suddenly cease to be a world power and will therefore play no signifi­cant role in end time events.

                            The destruction of American power is most likely to occur in two stages. The first could be an economic catastrophe that will result from our out of control debt situation. Our god is the dollar, and the Lord is going to destroy that god when the weight of our debt collapses our economy.

                            The second stage could occur when Russia launches its invasion of Israel (pro­phesied in Ezekiel 38 and 39). I believe it is very likely that they will launch a preemptive nuclear at­tack against our nation, since we are the only country in the world that might possi­bly come to Israel’s defense. This attack may be hinted at in Ezekiel 39:6 where it says that fire will fall on “those who inhabit the coastlands in safety.”

                            The Russian attack will prob­ably come from sub­marines deployed off our East and West coasts. Each Rus­sian sub carries more fire pow­er than all the bombs dropped in World War II. Such an attack would give us only seven minutes warn­ing, not even enou­gh time to launch a counter attack.

                            With the U.S. immobilized, the Russians will then attack Israel and, according to Ezekiel, their army will be wiped out su­pernaturally by God on the hills of Israel (Ezekiel 39:1­4). The greatest power vacuum in the history of mankind will be created almost overnight. The world will be gripped by panic.

                            Into that vacuum will step a dynamic, charismatic Euro­pean political personality who will be energized by Satan. He will begin to rally the world to his support through his brilliant proposals for world peace. The world will be mes­merized by him (Revelation 13:8).

                            An Objection
                            Some argue that since the collapse of the Soviet gov­ernment, Russia is now too weak to launch any attack against Israel or the Untied States. It is true that the econo­my of Russia is in shambles, but the military power is intact, including thousands of nuclear warheads!

                            In fact, Russia is far more dangerous to the world today than before the Soviet collapse. The increased danger is rooted in the instability of the government.

                            There is no hope for de­mocracy in Russia because the societal values that are es­sential for the working of a demo­cratic system do not exist. Nor is there any histori­cal expe­rience with democracy. Be­fore the Commissars were the Czars.

                            The current experiment with democracy will not last long. It will be overthrown, most likely by a coup that will produce a military dictatorship. That new tyranny will then most likely resort to one of the oldest techniques of govern­ment — namely, stirring up trouble abroad to divert people’s attention away from their domestic problems. That foreign trouble will be the invasion of Israel.

                            The Parallel of Habakkuk
                            I admit that I do not like this speculative scenario. But it seems the most likely chain of events to me. When it first occurred to me, I was particularly repelled by the idea of God using Russia to judge our nation. I asked, “How can a holy God punish those who are evil with those who are more evil?”

                            My quest for an answer to that ques­tion led me to the book of Habakkuk. I discovered that Habakkuk asked God the same question when God re­vealed to him that Judah would be judged by an invasion of the Chalde­ans.

                            God never answered Habakkuk’s question. He just called on Habakkuk to proceed in faith, believing that God knew best (Habakkuk 2:4). After a difficult spiritual struggle, Ha­bak­kuk stepped out in faith and said, “Lord, even if the Chaldeans complete­ly destroy us, I will continue to exalt Your name” (Habakkuk 3:17-19).

                            The Chaldeans came. They destroyed the nation of Judah and the Temple of God. But where are the Chalde­ans to­day? In the dust bin of history. Where are the Jews? Re­gathered to their land.

                            The point is that God has the wis­dom and power to or­chestrate the evil of Man to the tri­umph of His holy will in history. It is not for us to question His ways. Rather, it is for us to trust Him.

                            A Sobering Conclusion
                            But there is another point to consider. Are we really more righteous than the Russians? I think not.

                            In fact, I be­lieve we are far more dangerous to the world spiritually than the Russians have ever been, for we are the world’s moral polluter through the export of our sleazy television pro­grams, our filthy mov­ies, our satanic music, and our de­grading pornog­raphy.

                            We are a people who have turned our back on God. The day of judgment for us will be far more severe than for the Russians, for “to those to whom much is given, much is expected” (Luke 12:48).

                            Another Possibility
                            There is another possible fate for the United States. If the Rapture were to occur today, we would be devastated because our nation contains more born again Christians than any other nation in the world — more than all of Western Europe combined. Further, we have many born again Christians in high positions of commerce and government. The Rapture would reduce our nation to chaos, removing us from the international scene as the world’s dominant power.

                            We can hope and pray that this will be the destiny of our nation, because if it is not, we are headed toward outright destruction due to our rebellion against a gracious God who has blessed us more than any other nation that has ever existed.

                            http://www.lamblion.com/prophecy/issues/PI-10.html


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                            • #15
                              <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by goldwinger:
                              A Speculation
                              I personally believe that the reason the U.S. is not men­tioned in end time prophecy is because we will suddenly cease to be a world power and will therefore play no signifi­cant role in end time events.
                              <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Absent any specific mention in scripture, the above is the conclusion I keep coming back to...

                              We're not mentioned in scripture because we are not a vital player. Such would be unthinkable today with the U.S. seemingly at its military peak and just coming off a decade of unparalleled economic growth. We couldn't help but be right in the middle of anything happening to Israel. But it appears we won't be on the scene.

                              Better prepare.

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