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Anyone carry IV bag as part of their first aid kit?

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  • Anyone carry IV bag as part of their first aid kit?

    In Blackhawk Down, a wounded Ranger had 6 IV bags pushed through him due to his severe thigh wound. Does anyone or has anyone considered carrying an IV bag as a part of their first aid kit, BOB or even when hunting? (If you are in the military this isn't an issue because of the medics. But how about us civies?)

    A severe wound like a deep gash (from a fall) or even a minor, accidental gunshot wound could see a large loss of blood. It could take days to get you or someone in your group to get proper medical attention when out in the bush, and having an IV bag seems to be a logical solution (pardon the pun).

    Anyone given this some thought?

    ------------------
    "Never underestimate the underestimated."

  • #2
    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Anyone carry IV bag as part of their first aid kit? ..... Anyone given this some thought? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Only in a full-trauma kit that we carry to matches - in a VEHICLE! There's NO WAY I'd hump 1kml of NS/D5W just for the off chance I'd need to start a non-sterile line in the friggin' boonies (a bus is bad enough)! Can you say "nososomial infection"? Besides,
    for 2:1 fluid replacement, you're going to need 2-3kml MINIMUM, WAY too much weight.

    Rather, turn your efforts at containing the failure and lots of pressure to prevent massive loss in the first place.

    Sorry, didn't mean to put down what you're asking, valid question indeed, this is just my lazy-ass*d point of view on the subject.
    \"Sorry lady, this all day sucker is down to the soggy white stick\"

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    • #3
      Packs and frames come into my shop each day . And between them is usually a Saline bag taped to it . I've asked several cormans the reason , they replied " I have enough suppies to carry as it is and these guys can carry thier own "."And Better to spread load and have their own kit on themselves . "
      Of coarse these guys are recon and operate far away from support . My evaluation is , that if I'm far away from help and become dependant upon my buddies or myself . What a little more weight knowing that the need for it can be a possibility .
      I have two IV bags here in the shop . They make a excellent breachers aid !
      ------------------
      " I TAKE MY GEAR SERIOUSLY . THAT'S WHY I MAKE MY OWN !"

      [This message has been edited by High Speed (edited 03 February 2002).]

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      • #4
        dependent on whether you're capable of starting & administering the IV. figure 2.5 lbs per bag and it gets reall heavy.

        but in the end it really depends on what the mission requirements are -

        egg

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        • #5
          An IV bag, huuuuuummmmmmmm......yea, I think it may be worth it for each member of the group to carry their own 1000cc bag of saline. No, I don't think it's much weight for it's worth. Remember, you can get the medic or your buddy to start a line on you if you are dehydrated. Especially after a long "hump". You do not need to be hypovolemic to benefit from 1000cc's of .9 normal saline. Remember, that stuff is just sterile electrolytes. You can even drink it if you have to. The medic should be carrying a colloid solution if possible, you boys are talking about crystalloid solutions. Two diffrent things. Yea, the replacement is 3:1 for crystalloids to blood loss. Not only that, the crystalloids don't transport oxygen or stay in the intravascular space for any amount of time. An aside to using the sterile IV solution intravenously is, you can use it to flush someones eye if they have something in it after sweeping it with a magnet. You should be able to start a reasonably "sterile line" anywhere with the right gear. Trust me, I do it about 7 times a day in all types of situations. TomJ is right, you do need to control bleeding first if possible. BLS before ALS my friends. BTW, i think you mean "nosocomial infection" which is an infection acquired while at a hospital or care facility.

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          • #6
            While the IV bag may be worth its weight in gold, it is useless if someone isnt trained to use it. I wouldnt hump one unless I had a trained medic on my team.

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            • #7
              <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by miketm:
              ........for it's worth. Remember, you can get the medic or your buddy to start a line on you if you are dehydrated. Especially after a long "hump". You do not need to be hypovolemic to benefit from 1000cc's of .9
              <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

              Sure..., if you have re-supply within minutes or hours at the most of said patient, but to "waste" an IV bag because you "got dehydrated" (ie; didn't drink enough fluids!) would be a complete waste of humped weight to me, why not carry a few extra canteens and deal with it the right way?

              <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>
              to flush someones eye if they have something in it after sweeping it with a magnet. You
              <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

              Again, you can use water, doesn't have to be sterile (especially considering the environ) and using a magnet can cause MORE trauma if embedded object is ferrite based, if not, magnet will do no good anyway (I know a young dips**t medic who wanted to do this on a patient and got his a** busted for it, no names needed).

              <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>
              should be able to start a reasonably "sterile line" anywhere with the right gear. Trust me, I do it about 7 times a day in all types of situations. TomJ is right, you do need to
              <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

              So did I, but I wouldn't consider a line (that I had no way to KEEP sterile) without support and knowledge that the patient would be in a "more sterile" environ VERY SOON. Just think MOST of the situations where a "field" (ie; no support within day/s) line is being considered could have been dealt with in other ways previously.
              <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>

              control bleeding first if possible. BLS before ALS my friends. BTW, i think you mean "nosocomial infection" which is an infection acquired while at a hospital or care facility.
              <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

              Also used in context of "by virtue of care" or "caused by treatment". That's the term most fequently used when they want to blame a secondary infection on pre-hospital care (s**t always rolls downhill!).

              Just have seen some horrible stuff from people opening up the human body to possible infection where there were no means to control it.

              Damn this brings back some memories, good post everyone!
              \"Sorry lady, this all day sucker is down to the soggy white stick\"

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              • #8
                Yup - but mostly Hespan and Hetastarch. 1000 cc's of NS does indeed help in the opening of doors.

                Dan

                ------------------
                Go Get 'em Gear

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                • #9
                  What are the different types of IV fluids?

                  What are they used for?

                  Which are used for Dehydration? Blood expanders?

                  What is the best overall IV fluid IF there is such a thing

                  What is Hespan?

                  What is Hetastarch?

                  Thanks

                  Biggame223

                  Out

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                  • #10
                    The team here ALL carry one bag of normal saline so the medic does not have to hump so much weight. It is in the same pocket of everyones pack where it can be found instantly also. We also carry 3 starter sets also. One 18 guage and one 20 guage and one 22 guage. Doesn't do much good to have a medic if they are down because of being wore out carrying enough for everyone!

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                    • #11
                      Ahhhh where to start, where to start............Javahead, i sent out the rest of the cash and those pics I mentioned. Thanks for the gloves, I'm sure they are gonna be fantastic. if you guys want to continue this, you should probably movre it to the field medicine section, I bet some of this info is already there........

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                      • #12
                        Yes, please DO continue this thread ... very interested in the topic.

                        Regards,
                        mib2000

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                        • #13
                          What is in those IV bags ?
                          One thought came to mind . Well , replaced with some VODKA , EVERCLEAR (fuel) and even more of that good corn stuff , For pain killing purposes !

                          ------------------
                          " I TAKE MY GEAR SERIOUSLY . THAT'S WHY I MAKE MY OWN !"

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                          • #14
                            Always carry at least one, and everyone carries at least 1000 ml. If you need it, it's there. I'd consider it essential. I know of one situation (first hand) where five IV bags were used on one person-their presence saved his life, IMO. Of course, if the PRC 77 worked we wouldn't have needed the IV's........


                            W

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                            • #15
                              I would have to agree with Taz. Although one doesn't need to be a medic to start an IV, you do need to have proper training to do so. Anyone trying to start one with anything less is just asking for trouble. This is a pretty easy skill to learn, however if it is not done properly it can result in air embolism, cather embolism(caused by shearing off the cath), infection, infiltration, etc. Also, we shouldn't foget how much fluid it takes to replace lost blood. For comparison sake, for every 1000CC of lost blood it will take 3000CC of IV solution to replace. That is a lot of fluid to carry considering the types of trauma you would want to consider starting an IV for.

                              Your every day use IV solutions are lactated ringers and normal saline, both of which are equally effective for the use we're talking about here. Normal saline is nothing but sterile water and sodium chloride. LR is basically the same, but also has small amounts of potassium, calcium, and lactate. There are also blood exapnsion solutions, however I'm pretty sure field use is limited to the military and/or possibly in foreign countries.

                              IV support for the injured/wounded patient can be a valuable tool indeed, but we certainly shouldn't forget about the risks, as it definately is not as benign as it seems.

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