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**MartinS** · May 14, 2004, 18:51

Thanks for this.
Was the "762x39 leadcore FMJ-BT" solid nose or air space nose?

**Yoda-Dad** · May 14, 2004, 19:33

Originally posted by MartinS:
Thanks for this.
Was the "762x39 leadcore FMJ-BT" solid nose or air space nose?

your welcome .

it was Wolf but , that dont matter . the core just rams up on impact with a solid object . it seems flesh and thin bone (a single 3/4" particle board) are not solid enough . 2) 3/4" particle boards are .

neither does it matter if HP or SP except the increased drag slows it down a little more so the Wolf HP-BT has a max of 15M less compared to the FMJ .

besides , you cant have a 1.040" FMJ-BT that is ~120grns without either a steelcore or some space . the Specific Gravity of lead being about 11 , that of steel about 8 , copper jacket material , 9 . a normal jacketed bullet has a sp.gr. of around 10.7 . a 762x39 M43 steelcore bullet , 9.4 or so .

the Wolf and G-Tiger have empty tip space . the Klimovosk HP has a plastic base insert a little larger than an advil tablet . their sp.gr. is still about 9.4 .

right after the '94 ban when 762x39 was just comeing over again from Russia , one of them companies sent over some FMJ-BT that was just full-o-lead . i didnt record it but remember it being about 140grns .

[ May 15, 2004, 12:35: Message edited by: Yoda-Dad ]

**MartinS** · May 15, 2004, 23:36

Thanks again. You and the other Kowabungas on this board are why I don't spring for gun magazines anymore, the good stuff is here.

**Yoda-Dad** · June 5, 2004, 22:14

un-beknownst to me , aberdine proving grounds used 10GA test plates instead of the 8GA used by nato . just found this little snippit , seems to generally agree with my findings (or vis-versa)for 556x45 M193 ammo . also there is a nice APGs standard ammo chart for the 556 giving true velocity/traj/drift at range ;

http://www.logicsouth.com/~lcoble/dir10/excs123.txt

**Yoda-Dad** · June 6, 2004, 23:30

logged in the first 556x45 closerange hits on the steelsheet baffle @50M . the weapon and ammo are non-typical however , so far in the tests there has been no discernable difference in LCB of opentip HP/SP or openbase FMJ as far as penetration in sheetmetal goes .

the weapon was an AR15 type with a 24"match upper . the ammo was BlackHills 68grn OTM . the only chrono data from the owner who said it does between 3300fps/3400fps depending .

2 shots , penetrated 2sheets . holes in the second sheet enlarged , indented and torn open rather than 'plug punched' , ~1/2" . no 'plugs' found . on the 3rd sheet , 1shot left only crumbly splash and a very minor dent . the other a smallish backface-welt with some pieces of jacket imbedded in a sharp depression ~.250"W x .030"D . this dent overall about 10th that generated by the 9mmMak @21ft.
the holes in the 1.5" styrafoam spacers are about 60cal exiting sheet 2 to 1" by the face of sheet 3 . this denotes a lot of fragments for a 68grn bullet . most of which seems to be vaporpaint or minute particals .

this is performance similar to the Wolf 762x39 HP-BT which stood alone as giving the least sheetmetal penertation . since this 556x45 68gr OTM bullet / weapon combo probly gives the maximum energy available from the 556x45 - its a safe bet to assume M193 from shorter barrels will do only less . we will see .

@400M it penetrated 1 freestanding sheet with a clean hole like the LakeCity M193 did @400M but , unlike the LC , with a telltail dent surrounding .

[ June 07, 2004, 00:35: Message edited by: Yoda-Dad ]

**THS** · June 7, 2004, 20:44

Yoda - curious if you have tried the 154 grain 7.62 x 39 from Wolf? ...and the performance of such if you have??? TIA -THS

**Yoda-Dad** · June 7, 2004, 21:11

nope , not yet .

none available at the local stores and the last show i went too , two vendors had individual boxes of russian 762x39 150grnish SPs (the rest only in 500/1000 round lots). one guy wanted $7.95 per box ! the other guy , an old buddy of mine , had some at a more reasonable $2.50 a box each . when i went back to his table THE GUY IN LINE IN FRONT OF ME SCARFT THEM ALL :mad:

had great and wonderous fortune with other things though its just a matter of time . i'll test some eventully .

**THS** · June 8, 2004, 07:50

Thanks for all the info. you have provided, I will be another one who has taken notes from your notes.... -THS

**Azalin** · June 10, 2004, 21:46

Yoda-Dad,

Great information, I will have to archive it for future reference.

The Azalin

**Yoda-Dad** · June 10, 2004, 23:23

forgot to mention ,

when the 556x45 M193s were shot at a freestanding sheet at 400/425M , the bullet remains were simply scatterd about behind on the backstop and picked up off the ground . not so with the BHs 68grn match bullet - whatever was left of them hit the backstop hard generating a cloud of dust , burried .

from the 50M shots its apparent that there is a piece of jacket-boat-tail with maybe some lead in it remaining after first impact , unlike the openbase 55grn FMJ .

that BT piece is what accounts for the slight but sharpedged .25" depression in the 3rd sheet @50M .

**FirstShirt** · June 11, 2004, 06:59

Excellent Yoda,

One thing in question? Perhaps you can also remove the doubt from this one.
AK, Wolf 7.62X39 122grn. I read where this is the only grain that can be used with this barrel.
True or False.
I would like to use a heavy grain, but don't want a round stuck in my barrel if it's thicker.
Is it safe using a 154grn in an AK 762x39?

**Yoda-Dad** · June 12, 2004, 19:20

Originally posted by FirstShirt:

One thing in question? Perhaps you can also remove the doubt from this one.
AK, Wolf 7.62X39 122grn. I read where this is the only grain that can be used with this barrel.
True or False.

false . plenty of twistrate to go around for heavy bullets . its just that the trajectory wont match the rearsite at longer ranges . only a couple inches diff for closer ranges .

Originally posted by FirstShirt:

I would like to use a heavy grain, but don't want a round stuck in my barrel if it's thicker.
Is it safe using a 154grn in an AK 762x39?

the heavy bullets they load in 762x39 are all about .309" to .312" diameter . no trouble with sticking a bullet in the barrel there . ? . the only time i've heard of that is with a SQUIB that farts a bullet stuck into your barrel (poof instead of BANG) . if you would just chamber another round and fire it -- KA-BOOM !
or - someone messing with modifying factory bullets in such a way that the core shoots out of the bullet , leaving the jacket stuck in the barrel -- next shot rifle goes KA-BOOM !

**Yoda-Dad** · June 26, 2004, 19:01

mild steel core update

or should i say , sintered iron core . it dont matter 'cuz they act the same . from that 70s' Romanian 7.9mm mauser load that comes in cans for cheap . 155grn FMJ-BT sinterediron core bullet only slightly shorter than standard 198grn sS FMJ-BT LCB .
if you've seen Lollygagers pics of 'fish plate' hits with 762x39 'PS' , scale that up by 1.5 to 1.75 for the Romanian 7.9mm load . better have your helmet and bodyarmor on too ... what appered to be a 1/2 length core , shaped like a trumpet , bounced off my 1.5" thick 'bridge pad' @25M , back through 1/2" plywood like nothing , on its way to the moon ...

@50M fired at the 3.17mm sheet steel baffle with 1.5" between the sheets - SLIGHTLY better performance than HXP303 and 762x51 M80 'PINDAD' , both leadcore-copper-jacket ball , that is , penetrated 3 sheets too dent the 4th , the Romanian with a deeper dent . deeper by 1/3rd , not all that much . recovered cores looked just like the 762x39'PS' cores from the same test , scaled up some . none of the other LCB 8mm loads dented the 4th sheet although they knocked a hole in the 3rd -- a HUGE HOLE . dents were equivalent to that of 12GA Foster slug @25ft.
penetration wise , not counting the enormous dents , the 762x39'PS' did as well from 20.5" barrels (2411fps)

@400M , this is where the differences are .

762x39 'PS' (2311fps) , the 303 (2460fps) and 2 8mm mauser loads- 198grn copperjacket YUGO (2378fps) and the powerfull platedsteel jacket 196grn S&B load (2535fps) ,,, all these penetrate 1 sheet @400M and hit the second with ALMOST enough . the huge dents by the 8mm s', the cracked dents from the 303 (but no penetration) , the tiny (in comparison) but deep welted dent from the AK round that shows yield in the steel .

the Romanian round (about 2470fps AVE.) handily penetrated 2 sheets , sometimes leaving the jacket stuck in sheet 2 , to dent the 3rd . these proving to be about 60/70% of what the sheet could take before penetration . a little heavier bullet (Greek M38 7.9mm steelcore) a little faster and/or smaller diameter ( 762x54r 148grn PS) and penetrating 3 sheets @400M is a done deal .

all the recoverd cores were just like those recoverd from the 762x39 , just scaled up some . if anything the Romanian cores are softer than Chinese cores and swell up/flatten out more .

SO , mildsteel core ammo has the definate advantage (over leadcore ball) through sheetsteel at longer ranges and though cinderblock at any range .

at closer ranges , not so much a penetration advatage in sheetsteel but , since the core remains mostly intact , a better fragmented bullet chunk to hit the BG with .

**mike1** · June 28, 2004, 15:13

I can archive this info if needed. It's no problem.

Mike

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MAXIMUM RANGE ; NATO vs YODA -------- mild steelcore update

MAXIMUM RANGE ; NATO vs YODA -------- mild steelcore update

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