(MBR) a couple of M 14 type rifle questions

[Ekie]

I never heard that M1 Carbine and M14 uses the same gas system before. Forgot to comment on that, yeah the M60/M14/FG42 are similar in this aspect.

[Rage]

The truth be known, many companies have built acceptable receivers over the years.

The "dogs" to avoid are the Fed Ord and Chinese Norinco receivers. These receivers have a history of being too "soft" which can be remedied by heat treating but, when the receivers aren't aligned, particularly the part where the sights go, there's nothing you can do about it.

Beware of "loaded" or NM models too. Sometimes they stick a commercial barrel on a "Match" based rifle and call it National Match. Those "Match" rifles that you see may or may not be hybrids, even those made by Springfield. Only by studying the "match" specs in military manuals will you know all the things to look for.

For instance, Springfield advertised a "Match" rifle once but, when I examined it, the stock was not glass bedded. And take special note:

Match barrels and especially Match M1As are not good choices for shooting milsurp ammo out of. The headspacing on NM rifles is not the same as the standard rifles using the chrome lined barrel. If you get a "Match" rifle use only Match ammo.

If you're going to use the M1A as a general MBR, I'd take the standard any day of the week. A "Match" rifle being fed milsurp ammo (that $139 a case stuff) tends to jam a lot.

BEFORE you buy an M1A I would admonish you to read the book, The M14 Owner's Guide and Match Conditioning Instructions by Scott Duff and John Miller.

Published by Scott Duff Publications
P.O. Box 414
Export, PA. 15632
Ph. 412 - 327 - 8246 (was current in 1997.)

[arcom]

"Match M1As are not good choices for shooting milsurp ammo out of."

This much is true. OTOH, a preposition is a bad thing to end a sentence with.

[Rage]

Okay, I ain't going to do it again.

[Cornbread2]

There are three guys that shoot with me every week. They have the NM M1a and I have the standard model.

We all shoot the Port and Radway green ammo along with some Hirt. We have used some Santa Barbra and some Cavim also. Still the NM rifles have been 100% reliable.

The NM rifles have never choked with any surplus ammo.

In my opinion the average shooter will not be able to use any accuracy advantage that the NM offers. The M1a is designed to be fired from field positions with iron sights.
They are not ment to be benchrest rifles. Shooting from prone with a sling it takes a damn good shooter to shoot 4 MOA any time every time. Since the rack rifle using decent surplus is capable of much better accuracy why spend more money on the NM.

The GI chrome lined barrel on the standard rifle is good for about 20,000 rounds and still be able to keep its rounds on a 500 yard highpower target.

The life of the NM barrel is far less than that and only offers a slight accuracy advantage that most people can never learn to use.

When the guys with the NM rifles and I shoot the winner is the best shooter no matter which rifle is used.

The NM rear sight is better on paper targets but it sucks in field use.

The glass bedded stock is fine but you cant take tha action out of the stock for a proper ans easy cleaning.

The rack rifle using the $25 GI fiberglass stock sold by Freds is bedded almost as good. The fiberglass GI stock fits much better than the wood but it is still easy to remove.

[Ekie]

Here is some more information on a AK-47 shooting 7.62x51, hehehe.
http://www.falfiles.com/forums/showt...threadid=43200

[Seventh Fleet]

Think about it, could you see the Chinese duplicate a M1911>>>>>>>>>>>& gt;>>>>>>>>>>

We surely can and it was a very nice example of a 191A-1 too, it was made by Norinco. It also had a forged frame and receiver and they have been used as the basis for custom guns, they're that good. I would much prefer a Norinco 1911 over a Charles Daley or Auto Ordanance.
Buy one if you can still find one of them.

7th

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Support Your Local Police. Keep Them Independent.

[This message has been edited by Seventh Fleet (edited 06 July 2002).]

[Ekie]

Yes, that was sarcasm, the Chinese have duplicated all the items I listed, and typically theirs are as good or better then the original, it is a long standing Chinese tradition, that was my point. This is in contrast to Brazil.

[This message has been edited by Ekie (edited 07 July 2002).]

[Comrade Andrei]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Ruger uses cast parts in most of their guns and no one seems to bitch about them.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

No one bitches about the cast parts or the gun in general? Point is, I don't think it would matter if Ruger uses cast or forged parts, the Mini-14/30 would still suck.

I will say, I think China probably makes some of the best copies of guns in the world. They made excellent Mausers (depending on location and factory)-rifles and pistols along with others.

Had I been looking for one earlier on I would have bought a Norinco 1911A1-they are pretty close to GI spec and were a hell of a lot cheaper than the 1991 Colt-with flat mainspring housing that I don't like.
People grip about their SKSs but their actuall military issue guns are top notch in all fields. Even their commercial SKSs are not bad, not at all for the prices they were sold at before they were banned.

The Chinese can turn out quality weapons at very cheap prices if they want to.

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The Communists disdain to conceal their views and aims. They openly declare that their ends can be attained only by the forcible overthrow of all existing social conditions. Let the ruling classes tremble at a Communist Revolution. The Proletarians have nothing to lose but their chains. They have a world to win. Workingmen of all countries, unite!-Karl Marx, "The Communist Manifesto"

I would trust my life to two things-God and the Kalashnikov.

[Ekie]

Alright Cornbread2, just have to ask, who told you this:

"The cast parts on the M1a are the exact same hardness as the forged military M-14 parts."

[ARMY OF ONE]

Last I checked the U.S. is not making steel anymore, it's all coming out of Japan. Can anyone name one U.S. steel mill still in existence that is a major steel producer? I would bet most Springfield receiver steel is not from the U.S. of A. If I am wrong I would love further info.
I would suggest you talk to Clint at Fulton. He knows a lot more than most as he builds the things for a living.
He has built for me M-14's on both Springfield receivers and Polytech's with mil-spec G.I. parts. They are wonderful rifles and I have never had a problem. My understanding is Springfield does not use all G.I. spec parts but that some are stamped after market parts. My suggestion is have a dealer buy you a Springfield receiver from Champion for around $400. Send it to Fulton Armoury and get the service grade package for around $1000. When you are done you will have a rifle that is not much more expensive than what you would have bought from Springfield but yours will have all G.I. spec parts.

[Pitbull67]

The U.S. is still making steel. Here in Ohio it is still a major buisness. Ak steel is one of the most well known because of their safety violations. Have seen in the news U.S. steel mfg. is making a comeback, would be nice to see.