(MBR) a couple of M 14 type rifle questions

[panchop440]

Hey, since i picked up this M1A bull pup and mags are so expensive i figure i should at least get another rifle that uses them. I have never owned any M1A s and am wondering what is the way to go. Springfield, Fulton Armory, Poly Tech. i don't understand "loaded " , GI parts, soft parts, hard bolts etc. I am no sniper, I like to shoot offhand and bang the gongs,. any advice would be appreciated.

[ 11. December 2002, 19:22: Message edited by: GunnFixr ]

[Cornbread2]

The Springfield Armory standard model M1a is as about as good as it gets.

Some will say thay you have to buy the Fulton Armory rifle with all the GI parts but this is BS. There is no way it is worth that much more.

The Springfield will last you a lifetime and it will shoot just as good as anything else.

[powerkicker]

The polytechs are good for the price too.Those who say they aren't have usually never owned one for the long term.

[Karsten]

I am by no means any expert but I will agree with both of the above posts.

I have the SA Standard Grade and it suits me just fine.

The Poly Tec M14 are said to have a few issues to have checked like the head spacing and some possible soft parts. However the reciever is milled said to be far superiour than the cast ones SA uses.

If you can buy one cheap enough, shoot the heck out of it and send it out to Fulton. You may end up with an end product than with you had the SA.

Which ever one you buy, pick up a USGI Butt stock kit with Multi Tool, racheting chamber brush and the rest of the cleaning kit along with a couple tubes of Tetra Gun Grease.

Good Luck

Karsten

[Motor Dawg]

Just to add to the others.A standard grade Armscorp rifle. Call Armscorp for better prices. There web site usually is higher than what you will have to pay. Also they build there's with all USGI parts.Thats whats advertised.I personally have a Springfield (loaded) and an Armscorp standard grade.To me there a toss up.Best of luck to ya and get your Mags from Coles. $36 a mag/USGI. Motor Dawg.

[LDK300M]

Panchop, You REALLY should check out, S.A.`s "loaded" model. The heavier barrel, national match trigger, and sights, etc. combine to make a rifle that is a delight to shoot "REARED UP ON YOUR HIND LEGS LIKE A MAN"
(favorite H.M. Pope quote)
Try one, you might like it. regards, Bill

[Different]

If you like to shoot offhand consider a Springfield Armory M1A Scout. The barrel is 18" long versus the standard 22" length. It's fast on follow up and easier to handle than the other model M1As. My personal favorite out of all the commercial M14/M1A rifle models is a pre-'94 ban Springfield Armory standard model M1A. Very nice.

[Constable01]

Springfields Good, People say the Poly tech is better because of the forged reciever, I disagree!

The springfield is Investment cast yes, but Cast out of the same steel the original M-14 was forged out of and the 8620 alloy has probably through advances in mettalurgy improved in the last forty years, Springfield can prove theirs is 8620 hardened to the same spec as the original m-14 reciever, I will pay extra knowing this as i know what i'm getting!

And while the Poly tech is forged, what is it forged out of? Old iron girters, old fishing boats, "Don't know scrap truck just pulled in and dumped scrap so we melted it and made a rifle!"

Remember China is a third world country and while one lot of M-14 chinese may be fine, where did they get the steel to manufacture the next lot and was it strong ordnance steel or mild steel with carbon added and hardened just enough?

See what I mean? Just my .02 cents!

P.S. The Untied States still produces the finest, strongest steel in the world followed by some Central European countries!
Asian steel on the other hand, you ever see a Japanese car body out last an american one?

I know there are people who are happy with their poly techs, but i don't want to spend 400 dollars on a "crap shoot" and maybe get a good rifle , maybe not, when i can for a little over a grand get something i know for sure is what i expected to get!

[Ekie]

While casting has improved, and US steel is good, and speaking of the Third World the Springfield Inc receiver is cast in Brazil.

The Chinese receiver is made of 5100 steel.

[rapidfire]

In that case it would be FORGED too, by IMBEL(THEY DON'T MAKE CAST PARTS, AND ARE THE ONLY BRAZILIAN COMPANY SPRINGFIELD DOES BUSINESS WITH!) like their 1911a1 Pistol is! For those who know Imbel is an internationally renouned FAL Manufacturer that still makes new parts for countries using the FAL!

[Ekie]

Sure IMBEL mills their FAL receivers from forged blanks, that is how FN set them up, got a license you know. So who set them up to make M1A receivers, maybe TRW or something, hehehe.

BTW, the FAL is made up of some forged parts, some from bar stock, and some cast.

[HatchetJoe]

Imbel recievers are investment cast, as are M1A receivers and all of Springfield's .45 frames. If you look at a finished Imbel or M1A you can see the texture or lack of machined surfaces. Of course this assumes you undertstand what you are looking at.

Delude yourselves if you like, there are several FN approved methodologies for the manufacture of FAL type recievers. Look at the quality of the stubs on STG58s or G1s and compare them to Imbel, If you can't see the difference go to your optometrist.

[Ekie]

Well well Mr Hatchet, I will differ with you on wether or not the IMBEL FAL receiver is forged or not. I say it is for the following reasons.

Springfield Armory advertised it as such
DSA advertised it as such
Dealer Warehouse currently advertises as such
Plus Moe, Curly and everyone else that sold them
the largest most comprehensive ad for the current DSA receiver (Peter's SOF write up) did not mention them being cast but did mention them being made of 1060 rather then the 4140 DSA uses

I am not qualified to look at a fully machined part to determine wether it was milled from a forging, bar stock or a casting (unless real obvious), but I took a look at a 2001 production receiver considering my vision is a corrected 20/20. The only external surface I saw that did not have tool marks is on the bottom of the receiver directly below the carry handle cut out. The area appears similar to the surface of a forged M16 FSB.

[Constable01]

It would not be beyond the scope of Brazil to manufacture M1A Recievers as *Brazil recieved some *m-14's and *Bm-59's to Augment FAl production when it was running short of what the Brazillian army needed!

I'm sure they could reverse engineer and and copy exactly, like they did with the 1911 pistols they produce at Imbel!

How do you think Norinco Did it, did Winchester set them up HEH! HEH! HEH!

I think not! And Taiwan definately did not sell them their tooling!

RED China did it with captured examples from Vietnam!

* Information found in "Rifles of the World"

[Constable01]

P.S. Brazil also used several thousands of M-1 Garands they got from the United States during WWII along with their Mauser 98's until Fal Production began!