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  #1  
Old November 11th, 2004, 11:29 AM
Mr. America
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Which of these rounds generally is the more powerful of the 2? What about speeds and drops?

I realize these will be effected by the gun and weigt of bullet, but there should be a general rule to this shouldn't there?
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  #2  
Old November 16th, 2004, 08:17 PM
TreverSlyFox TreverSlyFox is offline
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The 8mm (7.92x57, 7.92x57JS, 8x57mm Mauser) was adopted in 1905 and compares to the 30-06 ballisticly.

The 7.62x54R goes back to 1891 and ballisticly falls between the 7.62x51 NATO/.308 WIN and the 30-06.

Either will take targets out to 600 yards without a problem and to 800 yards with some effort on you part.

Your consideration should be on the weapon itself and not the round. While the Russian/Finn Mosin Nagant rifles are plentyful and cheap. The strongest action is the Mauser K-98. Having owned and shot both I lean towards the Mauser line as the better weapon.

The Mosins are rather sensitive towards ammo and some surplus ammo doesn't have tight specs on rim thickness and you get into "Hard Bolt" syndrome. The bolt being hard to close or open and at times can require a mallet to open the bolt on a fired round. My Finn capture M-39 is very ammo sensitive.

With the 8mm Mauser I've never had this problem and have only heard about 8mm surplus ammo being better (More accurate or dirtier than another). I never should have sold the K-98 I had years ago. YMMV
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  #3  
Old November 17th, 2004, 08:31 AM
Yoda-Dad
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there is suprizingly little differance in penetration (of sheetmetal) for all the rounds discussed above , with leadcore bullets . steel JACKETED leadcore bullets provide no penetration benifit except the sparks generated by stripped off grindings , on impact .

mildsteel CORE ammunition is another story altogether , giveing superior sheetmetal/cinderblock penetration especialy at longer ranges but , no further advantage against other softer materials like wood , sand(bags) , dirt . mildsteel core ammo is common in both 762x54r and 8mm sS but not common to the others .

i have to agree that most 8mm surplus is of higher quality than 762x54r and the mauser generally a higher quality weapon , especialy where the safety of the shooter(head separation / gas bleedoff) is concerned . however , i have yet to hear of a shooter injury due to an 1891 .

the differances in trajectory and effect , on an unprotected human adversary , out to "one shot , one kill" range are not worth argueing over . all of those rounds yaw only after 6" or more of point-first penetration (tested at very close range) provided they hit sufficiant wetmass to cause any yaw at all .
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  #4  
Old November 18th, 2004, 01:37 AM
Southern Shark Southern Shark is offline
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The mauser action may be theoretically stronger, although I'm honestly not sure about how it compares against the Mosin. The Mosin is a pretty tough gun. In reality though, no matter which is "stronger" they are both far stronger than they need to be for the ammunition which they are chambered for.

In other words the people who claim that a mauser is better than say an "enfield" because it is "stronger" are really saying that a "mauser" can be converted to a higher powered round than an enfield. If, however, you don't plan to chop your rifle up and put a new barrel on then it does not matter. Because if you shoot ammo for which the guns were designed then all of the guns are plenty strong enough.

You can shoot .303 in an Enfield or 7.62x54r in a Mosin all day and you will be fine. You may not be able to convert those rifles to say .458 win mag. But then why would you want to?

The Finnish M39, by the way, is a bad rifle to use as an example of the Mosin's tolerances. This rifle, while being of high quality, was built to tolerances which are tighter than the M44 or M91/30. So that it is more prone to getting stuck.

[ November 18, 2004, 01:42: Message edited by: Sharky_N_FLA ]
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  #5  
Old November 18th, 2004, 11:04 AM
Yoda-Dad
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its not that the mauser is stronger that makes it safer but , it has an IMPROVED route for high pressure gas to escape AWAY from the shooters face and eyes in the event of a head separation or blowout.

the enfield is prittygood in thisrespect also
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  #6  
Old November 18th, 2004, 07:14 PM
Southern Shark Southern Shark is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Yoda-Dad:
its not that the mauser is stronger that makes it safer but , it has an IMPROVED route for high pressure gas to escape AWAY from the shooters face and eyes in the event of a head separation or blowout.
Yeah I realize that. I wasn't responding to your post on that subject, but rather the previous one.

I see your point, although Mosins are pretty common and I've never heard of this being an issue.
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How miserable that man is that governs a People where six parts of seven at least are poor, indebted, discontented, and armed. - William Berkley... Royal Governor of the Colony of Virginia (1670'ish).
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  #7  
Old November 20th, 2004, 05:22 PM
Yoda-Dad
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the above comments about terminal effect are just about humans , for which i would almost always favor a #4 and MK7 SA ball.

dont feel the same when it comes to large nasty critters . for those i prefer the stock mauser sites , action and am DEAD sure the 196grn S&B FMJ-BT or SP @2500fps will brain anything walking on 4 feet . wouldnt 'sporthunt' any large dangerous critters so , all i'd be lookin to do is make that perfect headshot within the last 50M , with them a huntin me .
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  #8  
Old November 22nd, 2004, 04:42 PM
Yoda-Dad
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8mm turk mausers with turk ammo is like , almost in the .300 winmag class . 3000fps/154grn spitzer .

and old farmer in Iraq claims to have shot down a blackhawk with his 'ole beatup Turk and , i'd believe it after the few tests i did with that combo !
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  #9  
Old November 29th, 2004, 09:09 PM
yasnevo
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This is just a humerous observation...
During WWII, the Germans and their allies used the Mauser 98 in 8mm... the Soviet forces used the 7.62x54R...

Who won?

Okay then...

[img]smile.gif[/img]

Y-
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  #10  
Old December 22nd, 2004, 08:44 PM
Yoda-Dad
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a recent "mosin face" report here ... wear them safety glasses fellas , ya hear !

http://www.milsurpshooter.net/

go to the military surplus ammo forum and read HUNGARIAN heavy ball shooting report .
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