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  #21  
Old November 10th, 2017, 21:30
Led Led is offline
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Default Re: OK Let us settle ALL battle rifle questions and positions and ,,,,

I would go with my FAL......and take my HK91 as backup??

Heck.....I can't decide on something like that!!!!
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  #22  
Old November 10th, 2017, 23:18
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Herr Walther Herr Walther is offline
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Default Re: OK Let us settle ALL battle rifle questions and positions and ,,,,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reasonable Rascal View Post
One of the worst decisions of my life was parting with a pre-ban HK91. Oh sure, I made about $500 on the deal, but still...

RR
I guarantee if you were to buy a PTR91 you wouldn't be able to tell the difference except for the stamp on the magwell. You'd love it.
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  #23  
Old November 10th, 2017, 23:59
Tread Head Tread Head is offline
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Default Re: OK Let us settle ALL battle rifle questions and positions and ,,,,

I have a Springfield Armory G3. ( Stamped that way) A Greek HK91. Its a great shooter. One heavy rifle though with a scope on it. I actually pick it over an HK. The HK felt loose to me and well guess ya had to be there to know what I mean on that one.

I have a DSA FAL SA58 carbine. Now that's a nice gun. Shoots great and it is super easy to clean. I need to ditch that match rear site. I can hit with it but its not my cup of tea afterall...........

Never owned an M1a. Shot them a lot just never pulled the trigger to get one. It nor an M1 Garand. I really wish I had one of those. More historical I guess. But it is a rifle that really was liked and hated I guess at the same time?

TH
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  #24  
Old November 11th, 2017, 09:24
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Herr Walther Herr Walther is offline
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Default Re: OK Let us settle ALL battle rifle questions and positions and ,,,,

I've never felt a smoother recoil from an HK91 type rifle than my PTR. They have the bolt gap set so well on this rifle the unlock and recoil impulse is extremely smooth.

I can't describe it, but it is not the jolting shove you normally feel from this type of action.
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  #25  
Old November 11th, 2017, 14:55
Southern Shark Southern Shark is offline
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Default Re: OK Let us settle ALL battle rifle questions and positions and ,,,,

If I seriously had to pick one to use to protect myself, I'd pick an M1A just because it is very reliable and will shoot any crappy ammo. Plus it looks cool.

But if someone offered me any MBR out right now for free, I'd grab a Desert Tech MDR in .308 since its the most futuristic.
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  #26  
Old November 13th, 2017, 00:26
madmikes223 madmikes223 is offline
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Default Re: OK Let us settle ALL battle rifle questions and positions and ,,,,

Id go with the M1A
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  #27  
Old November 13th, 2017, 23:34
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Default Re: OK Let us settle ALL battle rifle questions and positions and ,,,,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Southern Shark View Post
If I seriously had to pick one to use to protect myself, I'd pick an M1A just because it is very reliable and will shoot any crappy ammo. ............... .
That's one of the things that I love about my STG-58. It has an adjustable gas system. I can dial it in for just about any type of ammo and it'll run fine all day long. Manufacturers will design the rifle to accept just about type of ammo but that design costs in longevity. It has to function with lower power stuff as well as higher power stuff. (Within reason) In order to do that, they'll set it up soft so it will cycle with the low power stuff. The problem with that, is that the higher power stuff causes it to hit hard internally. When I dialed in my STG-58, I started with the most wide open gas knob setting so the most gas would just vent out and not do anything. Then I tightened it up a click at a time until the rifle started functioning correctly. Plus; If those danged antifas would hurry up and attack and there were enough of them for my rifle to actually get dirty from firing, I wouldn't have to worry to much about it starting to malfunction. Just tighten the gas knob a click or two and keep on busting caps!!!
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  #28  
Old November 20th, 2017, 19:57
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LAWCOP LAWCOP is offline
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Default Re: OK Let us settle ALL battle rifle questions and positions and ,,,,

H&K makes good stuff, don't get me wrong,
BUT
that roller block bolt is/was just trouble waiting to happen.

When I worked at the week long 2nd chance shoots we did the gunsmithing on the shoot guns to keep them running. When H&K brought up some subguns for demo and to use in some of the events, on the MP5s you could pretty much guarantee within 5-6000 rounds you were going to have to replace some parts on it. Not a big problem if you have the parts on hand, which we did but at the same time when Colt sponsored a subgun event and provided several of the 9mm subs built on the M16, they ran and ran and never broke down. At Colt's request we put as many rounds through one or two as we could. We only switched off guns because one would just get too hot to comfortably hold. Would throw a towel packed with ice over it to cool it and then put it back on the line . In a week one gun had over 30,000 rounds pounded through it and it never stopped, never broke anything.
The H&Ks were always having to be tweaked because of heavy use.

The G3/91s were no different. At 5000+ rounds the rollers would have to be replaced, maybe some other bolt parts.

FOlks would ask why and we'd tell them, The colt was built on a gun that was designed for a fast hot high pressure cartridge, then you fire a low pressure slow mover and take the gas system out and make it a blow back and that gun should run forever.
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  #29  
Old November 20th, 2017, 20:27
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Herr Walther Herr Walther is offline
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Default Re: OK Let us settle ALL battle rifle questions and positions and ,,,,

Always good to have spare parts no matter the rifle.

I'll stick with my HK roller locked rifles.
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An unhappy German is a Sour Kraut!

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  #30  
Old February 15th, 2018, 21:22
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LAWCOP LAWCOP is offline
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Default Re: OK Let us settle ALL battle rifle questions and positions and ,,,,

JUST Hope the human waves aren't coming when you hit the 5000 round mark and you have to stop and change the rollers.
It could be a very bad timing break down.
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AT one time I did... unbelievable things for this country without question, because it was my country and right. NOW, my country, that country, no longer exists and I now I feel I am the Philip Nolan of my age.
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  #31  
Old February 16th, 2018, 10:59
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Default Re: OK Let us settle ALL battle rifle questions and positions and ,,,,

Got to remember that if the roller on the M1A bolt is not kept greased, it can/will seize up also.

Having an adjustable gas system is yet another reason I like the FAL system. Just have to accept though they are NOT a rifle for beyond 800 yards. Even the various countries that tried could NOT make a sniper version of it that worked. Belgians had the one the came close, but no cigar.

The ONE rifle that came close to being ideal was the Halloway HAC-7. Sight system and accuracy of the Match M-1A. Ergonomics and gas system of the FAL. Magazines of the original AR-10 (waffle mags). Reed Knight liked them as he used the ones he bought from Halloway for his AR-10 he came out with so many years later. CNC machined, and able to be mirror imaged (true left handed). Came in various 308 based calibers from .243 to .358. Para model that was as accurate as the regular rifle.

CAN we all tell I really liked it? Just wish the one I ordered had made it to me!
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  #32  
Old February 17th, 2018, 00:11
Harlock Harlock is offline
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Default Re: OK Let us settle ALL battle rifle questions and positions and ,,,,

JMHO but I was a FAL fanatic, and still like them. To be blunt, I am now sold on the PTR 91 classic. I will build up a collection of them as once you have tried them there isn't anything quite like it.

Only complaint is the ammo ends up with a nasty dent in it assuming you can locate where they are flying.

The accuracy has gotten better but that might be me getting used to the platform.
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  #33  
Old February 17th, 2018, 15:05
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Default Re: OK Let us settle ALL battle rifle questions and positions and ,,,,

The buffer for the ejection port solves the dented case problem to a large extent.

It is the slotted chamber that zebra stripes the cases that is the main problem for most reloaders.
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  #34  
Old February 17th, 2018, 15:17
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Herr Walther Herr Walther is offline
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Default Re: OK Let us settle ALL battle rifle questions and positions and ,,,,

HK calls it fluting.

The reason I built an StG.58 back in 2001 is because no one made a quality clone of the HK91 that long ago.

I bought a Century 91 as they were called back then only to learn from experience that they hire unskilled monkeys to build their rifles. After unloading that, JLD (forerunner of PTR) started making target grade HK91 clones that wouldn't cycle anything but Federal Gold Match. That honeymoon was over after a few weeks of returning the rifle back and forth to JLD and not fixing the chamber problems.

That led me to parts kits and Imbel receivers for StG.58's and FAL's. Building your own FAL was all the rage in the early 2000's and it was a great way to build a quality 7,62 battle rifle without being gouged by HK owners for a $900 rifle that everyone and their brother was selling for $3000 and up after the import ban.

No one built HK91's as a kit back then because rolling receivers on a jig and welding trunions and sheet metal was not in everyone's bag of tricks. But with an FAL, anyone could turn a wrench and work a punch and hammer.

The StG.58 was a lot of fun both building and shooting and mine was a nice rifle I sometimes wish I still had, but not as much as I wanted my PTR91 that I have now.

That is where I started and it is now where I have ended.
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Peace is our Profession, War is just a Hobby...
Peace Through Strength, Victory Through Devastation...Strategic Air Command

SAC WILL BE BACK!

American by birth, made from German parts from Emmingen, Baden-Württemberg

An unhappy German is a Sour Kraut!

Das Leben ist zu kurz, um billiges Bier zu trinken!
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  #35  
Old February 17th, 2018, 23:04
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Default Re: OK Let us settle ALL battle rifle questions and positions and ,,,,

I used to own and operate a firearms gunsmithing and refinishing business in addition to my "regular" county job. This was about the time that law enforcement agencies around the country started finding it more economical to restore their secondary weapons rather than always just buy new ones. The result of that is that we were restoring dozens upon dozens of AR type rifles, both select fire and semi auto, Mossberg and Remington shotguns, specialty bolt action rifles, gas grenade launchers, etc.etc. There were times when FedEx ran a van out here just for long gun deliveries to us.

We also contracted to refinish weapons with a few people who had the governments blessing to build and/or modify some pretty exotic stuff. One person in particular built weapons for governmental agencies for special purposes. I only ever asked one time what governmental agency would need a particular type of weapon and that was several (10 per case) cases of select fire suppressed Ruger 10-22's. The answer was animal control officers! I NEVER asked who needed belt fed 1919 machine guns or select fire M-14's or Fn-Fals or M2 carbines, etc. etc. He had paperwork for everything and it checked out with the Feds and he paid in cash.

The point of all of that information was to demonstrate that I disassembled and reassembled and poked and prodded and looked and peeped inside a LOT of weapons. All of them had good points and bad points. All of them had stuff I liked and stuff I didn't like. Some of them fit me well and others not so well.

The FN-FAL type impressed me early on. It fit well, was built well, had an adjustable gas system, was reasonable accurate, parts were priced reasonable and it wasn't a "sheet metal wonder". (I saw to many of those that were rusted thru) Yeah, it's heavy but ain't none of us perfect!!! I bought a demilled STG-58 and ended up with a parade rifle. It was hardly ever fired if at all. I bought an Imbel Gear Logo receiver and built it on that. I built it all. I test fired it and I zeroed it. I did some minor customization work to make it more mine. It's my rife, I still have it and I love it. Does your PTR91 have a last shot bolt hold open? My STG-58 does. Does your H&K G3 or variant have an adjustable gas system? My STG-58 does. Yeah my STG-58 is maybe a little heavier but it comes with a built in bipod. Does yours? The real bottom line is that my STG-58 fits ME. Your PTR91 may fit you but my rifle fits ME and that makes it better than anybody elses!!!!
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  #36  
Old February 18th, 2018, 11:04
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Herr Walther Herr Walther is offline
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Default Re: OK Let us settle ALL battle rifle questions and positions and ,,,,

You know I hear a lot of crap about the HK91 not having a bolt hold open. At the range I have seen just as many people pull the trigger on an open bolt, empty magazine AR-15, FAL, etc. after running out of ammo as I have on a closed bolt empty magazine rifle after running out of ammo. I see no significant advantage and if I did I wouldn't have bought a PTR91.

How's that adjustable gas system working out on the AR? Is there an advantage to it on the AK, the M1 Garand, M14? The PTR91 HK91 just like the other rifles doesn't need an adjustable gas system because they will fire anything.

The PTR91/HK91 comes in many variants, some with a built in bi-pod and some without. Just like the FAL/StG.58. The HK91 bi-pod is removable without tools in case it is not needed. Hows that work out for the StG.58?

Does yours come with a built in scope mount? Or do you have to improvise a screw-on mount or use a dust cover with a shakey mount attached, or worse yet have to screw it down to the upper receiver?

Does yours come with a collapsible stock shortening its length by 10" for compact carry and use and extendable in a second? How about a folding stock? Oh no, that's right, you have to change the entire lower out, and the bolt carrier, recoil spring, and the dust cover. How long does it take to change all of that? 15 seconds like the PTR91? Or perhaps a little longer?
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An unhappy German is a Sour Kraut!

Das Leben ist zu kurz, um billiges Bier zu trinken!

Last edited by Herr Walther; February 18th, 2018 at 14:24.
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  #37  
Old February 18th, 2018, 13:30
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Default Re: OK Let us settle ALL battle rifle questions and positions and ,,,,

Ever see either a M-1A or a FAL launch its barrel and trunion because the RECEIVER rusted thru from the INSIDE out? I have on a BUNCH of H&K's and AK's!

Jungles do not like sheet metal.
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  #38  
Old February 18th, 2018, 14:28
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Herr Walther Herr Walther is offline
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Default Re: OK Let us settle ALL battle rifle questions and positions and ,,,,

I've never seen it on any sheet metal receiver'ed rifle. I've never heard even one complaint on HK Pro after a ten year membership, and have never heard of it happening on FAL Files.

Can you point me to an example that didn't spend its life underwater or was maintained properly as HK recommends?

How many times has this happened with the AK, SIG 550/551, Valmet, etc? Examples? Photos?
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Peace is our Profession, War is just a Hobby...
Peace Through Strength, Victory Through Devastation...Strategic Air Command

SAC WILL BE BACK!

American by birth, made from German parts from Emmingen, Baden-Württemberg

An unhappy German is a Sour Kraut!

Das Leben ist zu kurz, um billiges Bier zu trinken!
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  #39  
Old February 18th, 2018, 15:36
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Default Re: OK Let us settle ALL battle rifle questions and positions and ,,,,

My 'battle rifle' happens to be a FAL/STG-58 just because of the fact it was what I could afford at the time. Before it, I had Mosin Nagants and a SVT-40. I will stick with the FAL because it's what I have and use.
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  #40  
Old February 18th, 2018, 17:09
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Herr Walther Herr Walther is offline
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Default Re: OK Let us settle ALL battle rifle questions and positions and ,,,,

Nothing wrong with the FAL/StG.58 or I wouldn't have kept one around for 17 years.

Not certain what prompted all of the bashing a few posts ago. But I can lay it on just as thick as anyone else that wants to start bashing my choices.
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SAC WILL BE BACK!

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An unhappy German is a Sour Kraut!

Das Leben ist zu kurz, um billiges Bier zu trinken!
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